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Dirt Huffer
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has Toyota's quality dropped off the deep end? Last year they recalled 1 million vehicals and now over a half million at the begining of this year.

TOKYO - Toyota Motor Corp. (TM) plans to recall about 533,000 Sequoia SUVs and Tundra pickup trucks in the United States to repair faulty components that could make the vehicles difficult to steer.

Six injuries and 11 accidents were reported as a result of the defect, Japan's top auto maker said on Friday.

Toyota, on its way to becoming the world's biggest auto maker ahead of General Motors Corp. (GM), has vowed to step up its quality efforts after a rise in vehicle recalls and increased scrutiny from Japanese media over quality issues.

Click here to visit FOXBusiness.com's Autos Center.

The latest recall covers certain 2004 to 2007 model year Sequoias and 2004 to 2006 model year Tundras, both built at Toyota's Indiana plant, the auto maker's U.S. sales unit said in a statement.

Toyota as a policy does not disclose estimated recall costs. A spokesman said the auto maker has funds reserved against quality costs at all times and expects no impact on its earnings.

Toyota last year recalled more than a million vehicles in Japan and 760,000 units in the United States, but the publicity has done little to hurt it. Toyota boosted its global sales by 9 percent in 2006, fueled largely by a 13 percent jump in sales in the United States.

Toyota and its premium Lexus brand are perennial outperformers in the closely watched J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey in the United States, although the Toyota brand ranked second among non-premium brands in 2006, behind South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co..

"Toyota has a lot of goodwill built up," said Christopher Richter, an auto analyst at CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets, adding that recall numbers would naturally rise with an increase in vehicles sold.

Recalls have also been on the rise across the industry as car makers use common components on various models to save costs. The Tundra and Sequoia, both of which are due for a full remodeling, share most of the same components.

Toyota will notify owners starting in mid-February and repair the defective front suspension lower ball joints free of charge.

Toyota's shares were flat at 7,980 yen in Tokyo, roughly in line with the Nikkei ave
rage.
 

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Master of the Face Plant
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The difference between Toyota and GM and Ford is that when toyota sees a problem they actually do a recall. Ford waits until someone dies. For instance on my 1997 F-150 there was a known issue with the lug nuts. Some of them had broken. There was no recall. Instead Ford felt a mass mailing would suffice. My 2001 Celica had 2 recalls. One for the belt tensioner making the belt squeak and another for the running lights being to bright to comply with new laws. Both fixed for free.
This recall seems much more serious however. I find it interesting that the vehicles recalled are all made in U.S. Plants.
 

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Dirt Huffer
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
sandmangts said:
The difference between Toyota and GM and Ford is that when toyota sees a problem they actually do a recall. Ford waits until someone dies. For instance on my 1997 F-150 there was a known issue with the lug nuts. Some of them had broken. There was no recall.
There was a recall on the 1997 F150's lug nuts

1997 FORD F150 Recall ID from NHTSA: 98V095000
Auto Recall Date: 19980513
Vehicle Component: WHEELS:LUGS/NUTS/BOLTS
Estimated Vehicles Affected: 1520000
1997 FORD F150 Defect Summary:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: MULTI-PURPOSE VEHICLES AND LIGHT DUTY PICKUP TRUCKS. THE LUG NUTS ON THESE VEHICLES MAY NOT CREATE SUFFICIENT CLAMP LOAD ALLOWING WHEEL MOVEMENT IN RELATION TO THE HUB/ROTOR MOUNTING SURFACE.
Defect Consequence:
THIS CAN RESULT IN THE LOOSENING OF LUG NUTS, STUD FATIGUE FAILURE, AND THE POTENTIAL FOR A WHEEL SEPARATION FROM THE VEHICLE, INCREASING THE RISK OF A VEHICLE CRASH.
Remedy:
OWNERS OF THESE VEHICLES WILL BE RECEIVING TWO NOTIFICATIONS. THE FIRST NOTIFICATION, WHICH BEGAN IN MAY 1998, WILL PROVIDE AN INTERIM REPAIR PROCEDURE UNTIL PARTS BECOME AVAILABLE. THIS INTERIM PROCEDURE CAN BE COMPLETED BY OWNERS OR THEIR DEALERS. IT SPECIFIES THAT THE LUG NUT TORQUE MUST BE VERIFIED TO BE 100 LBS. THEN THE LUG NUTS NEED TO BE TIGHTENED AN ADDITIONAL 1/8 TO 1/4 TURN MORE. THERE WILL BE A SECOND OWNER NOTIFICATION, WHICH IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN JULY 20, 1998, UNDER WHICH DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE WHEEL STUDS AND REPLACE THE WHEEL LUG NUTS.
Notes: FORD MOTOR COMPANY,
 

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Master of the Face Plant
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AC/BC said:
There was a recall on the 1997 F150's lug nuts

1997 FORD F150 Recall ID from NHTSA: 98V095000
Auto Recall Date: 19980513
Vehicle Component: WHEELS:LUGS/NUTS/BOLTS
Estimated Vehicles Affected: 1520000
1997 FORD F150 Defect Summary:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: MULTI-PURPOSE VEHICLES AND LIGHT DUTY PICKUP TRUCKS. THE LUG NUTS ON THESE VEHICLES MAY NOT CREATE SUFFICIENT CLAMP LOAD ALLOWING WHEEL MOVEMENT IN RELATION TO THE HUB/ROTOR MOUNTING SURFACE.
Defect Consequence:
THIS CAN RESULT IN THE LOOSENING OF LUG NUTS, STUD FATIGUE FAILURE, AND THE POTENTIAL FOR A WHEEL SEPARATION FROM THE VEHICLE, INCREASING THE RISK OF A VEHICLE CRASH.
Remedy:
OWNERS OF THESE VEHICLES WILL BE RECEIVING TWO NOTIFICATIONS. THE FIRST NOTIFICATION, WHICH BEGAN IN MAY 1998, WILL PROVIDE AN INTERIM REPAIR PROCEDURE UNTIL PARTS BECOME AVAILABLE. THIS INTERIM PROCEDURE CAN BE COMPLETED BY OWNERS OR THEIR DEALERS. IT SPECIFIES THAT THE LUG NUT TORQUE MUST BE VERIFIED TO BE 100 LBS. THEN THE LUG NUTS NEED TO BE TIGHTENED AN ADDITIONAL 1/8 TO 1/4 TURN MORE. THERE WILL BE A SECOND OWNER NOTIFICATION, WHICH IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN JULY 20, 1998, UNDER WHICH DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE WHEEL STUDS AND REPLACE THE WHEEL LUG NUTS.
Notes: FORD MOTOR COMPANY,
Interesting, I guess the mass mailing I recieved was in fact a recall notice even though it never said the word recall on it. I think a recall on 1.52 million vehicles is pretty serious though. Especially when its the bolts that hold the wheels on or something to do with steering. Other than that small problem however that truck was excellent. I put 150,000 miles on it with no problems. Toyotas quality has gone down as their production has gone up. I had an 85 Supra that ran flawlessly for 15 years and over 200,000 miles. What site did you get your info from? Toyotas are for the most part very good cars but their quality reputation is a bit overstated. They are good but not as good as some people think. My main problem with them is price.
 

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toyota made in usa

my friend is a service writer for a toyota dealership in riverside. he states that there is a noticable difference in reliabilty of cars made in US vs Japan. this has been true with the Camery which are now assembled is us. he has in the past several years bought toyotas but will only buys those still produced in japan.
 

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Sort of blows the "BUY AMERICAN" thing out of the water. Since the OP has a chicken little mentality with his histrionic question "Has Toyota's quality dropped off the deep end?"... oh, hell, never mind. I won't ever buy an American car.

Because said:
my friend is a service writer for a toyota dealership in riverside. he states that there is a noticable difference in reliabilty of cars made in US vs Japan. this has been true with the Camery which are now assembled is us. he has in the past several years bought toyotas but will only buys those still produced in japan.
 

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Dirt Huffer
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
sandmangts said:
Interesting, I guess the mass mailing I recieved was in fact a recall notice even though it never said the word recall on it. I think a recall on 1.52 million vehicles is pretty serious though. Especially when its the bolts that hold the wheels on or something to do with steering. Other than that small problem however that truck was excellent. I put 150,000 miles on it with no problems. Toyotas quality has gone down as their production has gone up. I had an 85 Supra that ran flawlessly for 15 years and over 200,000 miles. What site did you get your info from? Toyotas are for the most part very good cars but their quality reputation is a bit overstated. They are good but not as good as some people think. My main problem with them is price.
Google search is probibly the best at finding recall notices. There are quite a few of them here although the f150 is the highest selling automobile in the world.
http://www.automallusa.net/1997/ford/f-150/recalls.html

filtersweep said:
Sort of blows the "BUY AMERICAN" thing out of the water. Since the OP has a chicken little mentality with his histrionic question "Has Toyota's quality dropped off the deep end?"... oh, hell, never mind. I won't ever buy an American car.
Not really. If you look at the last three years Toyota has had massive recalls. This is partly do to the modularity of there lineup. A lot of the parts they use between cars. This also may be an indication of growing pressure to produce more vehicles as sales increase.
 

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ballbuster
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So what's your point?

AC/BC said:
Google search is probibly the best at finding recall notices. There are quite a few of them here although the f150 is the highest selling automobile in the world.
http://www.automallusa.net/1997/ford/f-150/recalls.html

Not really. If you look at the last three years Toyota has had massive recalls. This is partly do to the modularity of there lineup. A lot of the parts they use between cars. This also may be an indication of growing pressure to produce more vehicles as sales increase.
Toyotas suck? Heck, my family owned several Toyotas. All of them were well over 200k miles with no real problems, and my family is not really known for taking care of cars. I am, but not the rest.

I can tell you right now, GM and Ford are well known for shiz canning problems until they can't any more. I have a friend who's GM paint was shedding after 3 years and 20k miles, and the dealership blamed her, even though the car was garaged for a year while she was out of the country. It took a class action lawsuit to get them to honor their own warranty... and this was not an isolated incident. After her story, and a bunch of others I have seen and heard, I will never buy an American car.

Heh, I like the line 'cause a wheel to separate from the car, which MAY cause a loss of control'.
 

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Dirt Huffer
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
pimpbot said:
I can tell you right now, GM and Ford are well known for shiz canning problems until they can't any more.
Toyota isn't without its complaints. If you dont believe me just read some of the complaints at the bottom. This topic was not started to be a domestic vs. Toyota debate - which is purely opinionated. In terms of reliability GM and Ford are now on par with the Japanese.

2001 Toyota Tacoma
Parts to the front suspension have fallen off, I have put on 3 sets of front rotors. The rear end blew up, the locking diff. went out, the fender flares warped and fall off. It won't start half the time. The seal in the windshield leaks air. The fuel doors rattles on the freeway. The front end vibrates, and the dealer can't fix it. The speedometer quit working twice, and this is all in 34,000 miles.
Ryan Wern
1999 Toyota Corolla CE
electrical in doors shot, head gasket and water pump blew, only had the car for 1.5 yrs. 3years of payments left
Debbie Bilodeau
 

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Old school BMXer
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AC/BC said:
Toyota isn't without its complaints. If you dont believe me just read some of the complaints at the bottom. This topic was not started to be a domestic vs. Toyota debate - which is purely opinionated. In terms of reliability GM and Ford are now on par with the Japanese.
It's understandable that Toyota would have problems. These are machines, and machines can have problems.

But where in the world did you find any information that would lead you to believe GM and Ford are on par with the Japanese companies? :nono: That's not going to happen! Ever! (so long as GM and Ford aren't owned by the Japanese companies) GM and Ford are just as clueless as your claim! (no personal offense intended)
 

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Dirt Huffer
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Blaster1200 said:
It's understandable that Toyota would have problems. These are machines, and machines can have problems.

But where in the world did you find any information that would lead you to believe GM and Ford are on par with the Japanese companies? :nono: That's not going to happen! Ever! (so long as GM and Ford aren't owned by the Japanese companies) GM and Ford are just as clueless as your claim! (no personal offense intended)
Domestics are continually gaining ground on the Japanese where before they were lacking. Ford's new Fusion model earned high marks from both Consumer Reports testers and consumers who rated its reliability. Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ... to date the three sedans haven't had a single recall for anything minor or major, not an easy feat when you're launching all-new models. General Motors earned top ratings for the Chevrolet Tahoe, GMC Yukon, and Pontiac Vibe in predicted reliability. This is all according to Consumer Reports 2007 New Car preview. :rockon:
 

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Old school BMXer
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Well, we're all entitled to opinions, and in all reality, there are no rights and wrongs.

In all reality, a recall does not all of a sudden make a high-quality vehicle bad, nor does a lack of recalls make poorly built vehicles good.

On an interesting side note to your comments about Consumer Reports, I used to work for a company that made home theater receivers. On year in Consumer Reports, we got three Best Buys for three different models in three different catagories (they only had three in that review, too!). Sales of these units went very well...unfortunately. These units were made by our parent company in Korea, and they were junk. We knew it, but the factories wouldn't do anything to improve their quality. CR said the predicted reliability was very good - on what grounds, we had no idea, since the predecessors were junk, too.

If you've carefully studied the results in CR, you'll find that they are very inconsistent, especially between "sister" automobile models. For example, the electrical system may be problematic in one vehicle, but very good in the other, and they are exactly the same, including the components. I don't have any faith in CR. To each their own.

And your examples only cite new models that have limited experience in the field. How do you think their resale will be? Check the resale on previous models, and you may have an idea (the ones that were supposed to have "new and improved American quality"). Do you think resale value may give a hint of quality?

BTW, do you work for GM or Ford? (If you want to keep it private, you can PM me.)
 

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The Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota.

But I guess GM deserves its kudos on the trucks.

This is the first I've ever heard about Toyota slipping. Say it ain't so!!

This reminds me of the early Toyota trucks which were shipped from Japan as cab-chassis and fitted with beds at the American port. If you look at the old Toy trucks running around, the cabs look pretty good and the beds are rusted to *(#&$.

I sure don't feel good being unpatriotic, but it seems that's the way things have been with cars.

Hyundai has been the one to watch, it seems. Maybe I'll just get one of those!

Eric
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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AC/BC said:
Domestics are continually gaining ground on the Japanese
lol...so that's why Toyota has now become the biggest automaker this year? Because the domestics are gaining ground? Are you mad? Toyota is STILL killing them, and Toyota is STILL GAINING GROUND on them.
 

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Tanglefoot said:
The Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota.

But I guess GM deserves its kudos on the trucks.

This is the first I've ever heard about Toyota slipping. Say it ain't so!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16697719/

"Toyota recalled about 775,000 pickups and SUVs in May 2005 - one of its largest recalls ever - because of similar problems with the front suspension. The recall included 2002-2004 model years of the Tundra and Sequoia

Toyota had 2.2 million vehicle recalls in 2005, but showed improvements last year when its recalls fell to 766,000 vehicles. "

that's a pretty good improvement.
I follow the business side of the industry a bunch because I find it extremely interesting. I used to be one of the US automaker bashers because of the nearly sufficating contracts with UAW, but I see the efforts the companies are making, and I think it is reflecting in their product, and how it is being received by the experts. (The Saturn Aura just beat out the newly redesigned Camry for Car of the year!) That's why I think the other poster said they were gaining ground, and I would agree with that in both quality and design. I find many of the new designs appealing. It's just my opinion, but if GM can do to their other brands as to the success they've done with Cadillac, they'll do alright again. They once had a similar revival program (called Zeta i think) that they were ready to do with some of there other brands but were hemeraging cash to it's employee benefits. For instance, the new Chevy Malibu has been really spiced up, especially on the interior. GM is spending an average of $200 more on it's interior. That is a lot of dough when you think about how companies scrimpt for pennies. The challenge will be to get the public to look and convice them it's worth it, without the deep discounts (I pretty much stole this last example from one of the CNBC segments this past weekend)
 

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Carbon Ken said:
And the Koreans continually gain ground on the domestics. Who know's ? In the near future, our decisions may come down to Japanese or Korean.
And as much as I hate to say, the reality is that soon after that we'll be talking Chinese.:madman:

I still will never use the number of recalls to weigh the quality of the vehicle. A simple bad part is often the foundation of a recall, and if you think about how many parts go into each vehicle, it's impressive that all of the manufacturers do so well!

BTW, service bulletins addressing problems are a different story. Ever count how many service bulletins there were for Ford's 6.0 diesel-powered lemon? And they buybacks were killing them, I'm sure!
 

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I strongly believe that there is a difference in the quality of Toyota's vehicles made in Japan vs. those that are made in the US. The Tundra and Sequoia are only available in the North American market and are built here. I drive a 20yr old Toyota and love it. I have no doubt that I can drive it for another 20yrs if I so choose. I think the rapid growth of Toyota (now the largest auto manufacturer in the world) will lead to an overall decline in quality in the near term... but eventually, Mr. T will figure out how to overcome and deal with it's size. I have much more faith in their managment than I do in the domestic manufacturers. Still, if I were buying a new auto, I'd buy a Toyota or a Honda over Ford or Chevy... if for nothing other than a better resale value. GM and Ford have a LOOONG way to go to rebuild their reputations.
 

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Blaster1200 said:
And as much as I hate to say, the reality is that soon after that we'll be talking Chinese.:madman:

I still will never use the number of recalls to weigh the quality of the vehicle. A simple bad part is often the foundation of a recall, and if you think about how many parts go into each vehicle, it's impressive that all of the manufacturers do so well!

BTW, service bulletins addressing problems are a different story. Ever count how many service bulletins there were for Ford's 6.0 diesel-powered lemon? And they buybacks were killing them, I'm sure!
The problem with China is that they are really good with ripping off others ideas (bolt for bolt) but not very good with quality. Their auto's are crap.

The Ford 6.0 diesel is possibly the worst engine ever made. 7.3 is the only way to go in a Ford.
 

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Old school BMXer
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tha1000 said:
The problem with China is that they are really good with ripping off others ideas (bolt for bolt) but not very good with quality. Their auto's are crap.
So true. However, they are very aggressive in the learning right now. Since their auto companies are backed by the Chinese government, they are doing everything in their power to learn. Based one what I'm aware of what they have to learn from, it will be about 10 to 15 years before we really see something, but I can assure you that they will be a a very competitive player....I'm sorry to say.
 
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