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I do watch the bible tests now for several years and this vid is for my feeling one of their worst ones. Just to introduce the persons:
  • one the left: He's a ripper and reflects my riding style. He do wants to prayse the Prime but like seen in many vids he seems not to have the standig in the Team to take his thoughts and discuss them further.
  • in the middle: the Mechanik or tech-nerd and he for shure couldn't, cannot and will never push a bike to its limits. Its a pitty that he has that presence in that vid
  • in the right: I am not quite sure but think he is more on the xc-thing
By the way - without Vernom it is not the same

So whats something I agree/disagree?
  • it will never be the lightest bike (but put some money in reliable and light wheels and you are fine)
  • KS2 is the best suspension platform I have ridden so far. I took the frame only option, put a X2 on it and took the banshee recommendations and I was fine.
  • it defenitely rewards riders who are able to push and then my friends it is absolutey outstanding
  • it not only performs it has also tons of character which pushes you to go into steep, crazy lines ;)
  • it has long chainstays and yes, the manualing is a bit more heavy but in all other riding situations they are just beneficial
  • rides in wet or loamy situations are outstanding (due to the longer cs, makes sense when you are Born in the shore)
  • besides the plowing abilities the suspension design is quite poppy

These kind of infos I would put on my shortlist if I would do a review of this bike.

For your Info. I am riding now for 25 years and was always and am up to now on the enduro thing. Did several years of racing on a hobby level here in in europe like the Mega, ...Former bike was a Pivot Switchblade and the Prime is better in every aspect than the SB. Just in flowing terrain the DW-Link is more direct than KS2.

Hope that helps.
@builttoride Wouldn't it be a good idea to forward a Prime test bike to a magazine who is able to review it correctly?
 

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Interesting thing is- the review of the Offering pretty much described my perfect bike- just don’t want to pay that much for a frame, and not crazy about the complexity of all the linkages driving the suspension.
Don't let the convoluted "look" of the DELTA put you off, it's an amazingly well executed linkage-driven single pivot. I just finished up year 5 (6 month riding season here) of pummeling my Insurgent and both linkage and main pivot bearings are original, tight and smooth. Reliability has been ridiculous. Do a quick chip-flip on your Offering and your reservations about the link-drive will be out the window, imo.
 

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I am trying to decide between these two bikes as well so did some more research after the review on Beta.
Built up an Offering in Fanatiks website to see the weight difference they keep going on about. With shock the evil frame is 7.4 or 7.5 lbs. they don’t offer the dpx 2 on the site for the offering so I used a monarch which is lighter than the dpx2. The prime is 8.2 lbs. by the time the bike is built up you’re looking at a 33 lb v 34 lb bike. Negligible. The other complaint they seem to have is the chain stay length, that’s seems more of a personal preference / riding style question.
My two cents on the weight:
  • The Prime in large with shock, axle and headset weighs 9.1 pounds. Per Keith (I believe I posted it earlier in this thread) it uses the same tubeset as the Titan. This is right at the same weight as the Ibis Ripmo AF.
    • If you are really concerned about that last pound, this isn't your frame, there are lightweight carbon frames for people that want the lightest bikes.
    • For less than $200 more than aluminum rims, you can purchase a set of BTLOS carbon rims and drop 200-300 grams (1/2-2/3 pound) off your un-sprung rotating weight where it really counts.
    • Manufactures spent years making aluminum frames as light as possible with the compromise being breakage and flex. Even Turners, which I rode for nearly 20 years went through this. The Burner 3.0 (which is the same category as this frame) was a pound lighter and unfortunately had cracking problems, resulting in the 3.1 with different tubes.
I can tell you what drew me to the Prime over other choices, the primary one which was the Ripmo AF. Geometry. I don't ride like a jumping bean, bouncing off every little feature in the trail, manualing like Jeff Kendall, and having perfect position over the front of the bike. The Prime isn't as slacked out as many new bikes, has longer chainstays to keep your weight centered, and a taller headtube. It is a trail frame that is made to be easy to ride rather than having to ride it like a race bike all the time. If you ride like Jeff Kendall (like my son) bikes with a short chainstay that are really poppy are great (he has an HD4 and it is fun, but not the best for my riding style). I had concerns as voiced by multiple Ripmo owners about lack of front traction when not having perfect body position.

It comes down to looking at how you ride and what is important to you. I have ridden long enough to have lived through the weight obsessed late 90's and 2000s (I have been riding for over 40 years). It wasn't until I started downhilling with my son that I realized how flexy 32mm forks, light tires, and wheels were (keeping in mind aluminum wheels are a compromise of weight v. stiffness). My riding and enjoyment massively improved when I quit worrying about maximizing weight savings and built for durability. Being able to hit a section of trail as fast and hard as you are able rather than worried about breaking or bending something changes your riding. It makes it more relaxed and gives you more confidence.

My suggestion is take a honest look at how you ride and what characteristics you value in a bike. We have a plethora of amazing choices nowdays, the hard part is not finding a good frame/bike, but finding the best match of frame and setup to a rider.
 

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It seems clear the crew at Beta had trouble setting up the shock, and didn’t bother contacting Banshee for advice. Something I, and hundreds of others do routinely. In fact rider support is incredible at Banshee. Email a question and Keith himself will often respond with a detailed answer or advice.

The fact that they claim the travel felt “less then” 135 is a clear indication that they ran too much sag and as a result were sitting too deep in the travel. I promise you it definitely does not feel like less then 135. Mine has a 160mm fork and the back end keeps up no problem. i found running the Prime at 28% with a smaller spacer is key.

As for weight, I never feel it. Not sure what the build was, but the Prime is in line with all other “All Mountain” aluminum rigs. If weight is important to you buy lighter wheels with the 1k you save by buying a Banshee instead of a carbon frame.

finally there’s a learning curve to pulling manuals on the longer chain stays, but other then that I see no downsides. The stability at speed is confidence inspiring and confidence is key to bigger moves, and higher speeds.
I think youre spot on. they were running too much sag. Ive had quite a few Banshees and have loved em all. Ive emailed Keith about sag (and many other things) and have gotten a helpful response every time. But yea, if you set up according to just plain math for the prime v3 30% sag of 55mm stroke is 16.5mm. and it specifically says on banshees website, "13.5-15mm of shock compression, ignore sag markings on shock" for the Prime v3. My first banshee was a Rune and I didnt rtfm (read the f***in manual) and couldnt figure out why the back end felt so weird. Keith set me straight quick :) and it transformed the bike. Im currently Riding a v3 spitfire with a 160 ribbon out front and the back end feels amazing and endless--seriously, ive bottomed out the front quite a few times and have never felt it on the back.
 

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Mostly all of these bikes have progressive leverage ratios. that means at the beginning of the curve the shock is moving more than towards the end of the stroke. A 3:1 leverage ratio means the rear end will move 3 mm for every 1 mm the shock moves. Towards the end most of the bikes are around 2:1 meaning the shock only moves 1 mm for every 2 mm at the wheel.

People assume that 30% wheel sag is equal to 30% of the shock shaft, but it's not. On a dirt bike we can easily measure rear wheel travel sag, but on a mountain bike ideally the manufacturer provides a shock shaft sag that equals the desired sag at the rear wheel.

But just going off experience your bike is always going to need a couple of millimeters less sag at the shock to get the actual correct sag at the rear wheel.
 

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The other thing that many don’t realize is more sag also gets you further into the progressive part of the air spring. Many times people keep increasing sag (both front and rear) while adding tokens to keep the bike from bottoming. It makes the harshness worse, not better. Bottom line, start with the manufactures recommendations and bracket both sides. Many times it will feel better the opposite of what you think.
 

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I found this review pretty perplexing -- usually if these guys don't like a bike at least they'll convey some sense of the ride qualities that made the bike not work for them (beyond just being a little heavy). But then this morning I took my Phantom for a ride with the sag set at just a bit more than the max recommended (I'm still experimenting with set up and wanted to see what it would feel like softer in the rear) and it felt decidedly meh. Still pedaled fine, didn't wallow or bottom out badly, just felt kind of dead. Different bike model, but same shock and suspension design, so I would think it would have a similar effect on the Prime, though I've never ridden one. Those guys have way more experience with different bikes that I do, so I don't want to be a keyboard expert accusing them of not setting things up properly. All I can say is that riding my Banshee with too much sag seemed similar to the Beta reviewers experience of the Prime. Anyway, my 2 cents.
 
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