[Locotiki]

More fork advice please (for a Spot)

I have a 2003 Pushed Talas RLC. No matter what I do to it I can't get it to feel as plush as I want it. It feels worse to me now after I ride my SC Chameleon that has a Pike dual air on it. So, because it doesn't have the feel I want nor can I seem to get more than 120MM travel out of it I'm looking to upgrade. (Don't get me wrong, the Fox is a great fork) So I'm thinking of getting a Vanilla RLC from Push (Pushed), AM1 110-130MM or a RS Revelation (would really like a new Pike, but my brand new front Hadley hub can't be converted I'm told) Any suggestions?

 

[Prof]

Sell your wheel and your current fork and try the Hope bulb 20mm (which is QR or 20mm)
and the Pike for the 5 Spot, suit's the 5 spot better.IMO

 

[Locotiki]

I was afraid someone would say that. It would be painful because the wheel that the Hadley replaced was built around a Hope Bulb. They were bulbs laced to Syncros DS28 rims, they were more wheel than I needed on the spot. I converted the Bulb to 20mm on put them my freeride bike. I literally only have one ride on this new wheelset. I guess I could look into having the wheel rebuilt with the 20mm Hadley, but that may be spending more than I wanted. I'm afraid if I sold the front wheel I would end up loosing too much money.

 

[PSI]

you want plush? then go with the AM1 110-130MM

 

[MK_]

The problem witih going the AM1 route, for someone who is riding a 125mm Fox, is that it will raise your front by nearly an inch. You could compensate by reducint the AM1 travel to 110mm, but that's not really what you want to do, most likely. Revelation ought to feel as good as the PIKE in terms of damping quality, it will, however, not have nearly the same amount of stiffness (it should be at least as stiff as the Fox, which isn't particularly stiff at 125/130mm extension, though).

_MK

 

[Roy]

I second the AM1 recommendation although I'd get the 130-150mm so you can switch to 150 on certain steeps. The AC is longer in 130mm mode but many people actually prefer that. Note, the Pike will also increase the AC over the Fox.

 

[PAINpusher]

Definatly the pike over the Revelation (you can pobably find an '05 without the maxel) if you are concerned about extra travel.

*WARNING* - I love my Revelation, but it doesn't come close to it's reported 5" of travel, more like 4.25"-4.5", which is disconcernig to me b/c I bought it to match up with my 5.25" travel Epiphany. I haven't discussed the problem with RS yet, will have to call them soon.

 

[2TurnersNotEnough]

Definatly the pike over the Revelation (you can pobably find an '05 without the maxel) if you are concerned about extra travel.

*WARNING* - I love my Revelation, but it doesn't come close to it's reported 5" of travel, more like 4.25"-4.5", which is disconcernig to me b/c I bought it to match up with my 5.25" travel Epiphany. I haven't discussed the problem with RS yet, will have to call them soon.

FWIW, I've had the same problem with my Reba. I can get the first 3.5 inches of travel out of it in normal riding. I've let the air out of it and confirmed it will compress 4 inches, but I haven't been able to squeeze that last 0.5" out of it. I've noticed that the Revelation has not been fully compressed either, but I haven't tried to do anything seriously taxing on that fork (e.g. drops over 2' to flat). They both ride well and love the feel, but neither of them want to give up that last 0.5" of travel.

Maybe I just need to try harder

 

[Locotiki]

The problem witih going the AM1 route, for someone who is riding a 125mm Fox, is that it will raise your front by nearly an inch. You could compensate by reducint the AM1 travel to 110mm, but that's not really what you want to do, most likely. Revelation ought to feel as good as the PIKE in terms of damping quality, it will, however, not have nearly the same amount of stiffness (it should be at least as stiff as the Fox, which isn't particularly stiff at 125/130mm extension, though).

_MK

Would the increase in height matter if I'm currently running at least an inch worth of spacers?

 

[Deano]

Yup...

The height difference is below the headtube meaning it'll raise the frame and slacken the h/a. Spacers above the headtube won't change the h/a only move your stem and bars further up.

:^)

 

[Locotiki]

The height difference is below the headtube meaning it'll raise the frame and slacken the h/a. Spacers above the headtube won't change the h/a only move your stem and bars further up.

:^)

Ok so it will raise the front of the bike but will it affect the handling that much? I mean in a negative way? I can't see selling a brand new wheel at a loss so if it comes down the AM1 or the Vanilla RLC. Both would be run at 130mm so would the Fox be the better choice for the Spot? I was able to find an 05 AM1 110-130mm at a good price, but both the fox and the AM1 can be had for not a ton more than I can get for my Pushed Talas.

 

[MK_]

Ok so it will raise the front of the bike but will it affect the handling that much? I mean in a negative way? I can't see selling a brand new wheel at a loss so if it comes down the AM1 or the Vanilla RLC. Both would be run at 130mm so would the Fox be the better choice for the Spot? I was able to find an 05 AM1 110-130mm at a good price, but both the fox and the AM1 can be had for not a ton more than I can get for my Pushed Talas.

Whether the height of the AM1 will affect your handling in a negative or positive way is a matter of personal opinion. It will slacken the head angle by about a degree, raise your bottom bracket about a quarter of an inch and stretch your wheelbase a little bit. It will add a lot of stiffness to the front end. The stroke quality is much higher than that of the Vanilla. It will require frequent maintenance in the first few months of ownership to keep it running tip top and ensure proper break in.

Is that positive or negative? Your call.

By going with a PIKE you gain the stiffness and stroke quality without affecting handling/geometry nearly as much as the AM1. You do sacrifice the wheel.

I personally like nearly all of the characteristics of the Spot with the AM1, the only thing I would like is to retain the stock head and seat angles.

_MK

 

[Locotiki]

Whether the height of the AM1 will affect your handling in a negative or positive way is a matter of personal opinion. It will slacken the head angle by about a degree, raise your bottom bracket about a quarter of an inch and stretch your wheelbase a little bit. It will add a lot of stiffness to the front end. The stroke quality is much higher than that of the Vanilla. It will require frequent maintenance in the first few months of ownership to keep it running tip top and ensure proper break in.

Is that positive or negative? Your call.

By going with a PIKE you gain the stiffness and stroke quality without affecting handling/geometry nearly as much as the AM1. You do sacrifice the wheel.

I personally like nearly all of the characteristics of the Spot with the AM1, the only thing I would like is to retain the stock head and seat angles.

_MK

What type of maintenance would it require?

 

[MK_]

What type of maintenance would it require?

Disassembly, oil change, reassembly. Good wipe of the internals. One after first 15-20hours, another after another 20-40, then another after another 40 or so. After than, once a month or two until the oil is starting to look fairly alright when you open up the fork. If you don't perform regular maintenance, especially in the beginning, the fork will start to ride a bit harsh.

_MK

 

[Locotiki]

Disassembly, oil change, reassembly. Good wipe of the internals. One after first 15-20hours, another after another 20-40, then another after another 40 or so. After than, once a month or two until the oil is starting to look fairly alright when you open up the fork. If you don't perform regular maintenance, especially in the beginning, the fork will start to ride a bit harsh.

_MK

Ok, two more questions.
1. Is this not a good fork for the set it and forget it crowd? I'm the idiot that all my riding buddies make fun of with the nice bike that doesn't take care of it. I guess I should ask does the Am1 require more maintenance than other forks? I guess anything is going to crap out if I don't take care of it.

2. Everyone told me that running the 130-150mm version was way too much for a spot. I see this is what you are recommending. Why? I mainly use the bike for heavy XC/trail riding. I have an ASX for more heavy duty use. I was thinking for me that the 110-130mm would work fine. Plus I tend to like my bikes to handle on the quick handling side over high speed stability.

 

[MK_]

Ok, two more questions.
1. Is this not a good fork for the set it and forget it crowd? I'm the idiot that all my riding buddies make fun of with the nice bike that doesn't take care of it. I guess I should ask does the Am1 require more maintenance than other forks? I guess anything is going to crap out if I don't take care of it.

2. Everyone told me that running the 130-150mm version was way too much for a spot. I see this is what you are recommending. Why? I mainly use the bike for heavy XC/trail riding. I have an ASX for more heavy duty use. I was thinking for me that the 110-130mm would work fine. Plus I tend to like my bikes to handle on the quick handling side over high speed stability.

Set it and forget it means different things. It is a set it and forget it fork in a sense that you dial in your desired height with the TAS, set the preload for your wieght and go out and give it a beating. It does have the TST, which you might change depending on the trail or might find your optimal setting and leave it there, as is pretty much what I did. This is unlike say, TALAS where people opt for that fork because they can dial the height down for the climb and up for the descent. TAS is not the same type of feature U-Turn is as it is not easily accessible and takes a lot of knob revolutions to adjust the height.

As of maintenance. This fork does not require any maintenance, say, aside from the very infrequent seal change when they go bad, which is far less frequently than Fox. I essentially outlined the optimal maintenance cycle which will keep the fork performing at it's best. It is far more reliable fork than just about any fork out there. All Marzocchis need a little extra love in the beginning in order to return lots of love for years afterwards. Like all Marzocchis, an experienced user can get a lot more out of them by messing with oil levels, weights, etc. An inexperienced one, will still benefit from sheer joy of running a fork as smooth as the AM1 which offers excellent bottomout resistance for the bigger hits, while being ultra plush on all other elements of the trail.

Why 130-150? I don't see myself ever running it at anything less than 130. The damper in the 110-130 model also has slightly different means of attaching the dampers to the lowers which makes it not compatibile with Z1 lowers, which in turn would prevent you from running 20mm lowers if you ever chose to do so.

If you want a quick handling bike, forget about the AM1, unless you're cool with running it at 110mm.

_MK

 

[Locotiki]

Set it and forget it means different things. It is a set it and forget it fork in a sense that you dial in your desired height with the TAS, set the preload for your wieght and go out and give it a beating. It does have the TST, which you might change depending on the trail or might find your optimal setting and leave it there, as is pretty much what I did. This is unlike say, TALAS where people opt for that fork because they can dial the height down for the climb and up for the descent. TAS is not the same type of feature U-Turn is as it is not easily accessible and takes a lot of knob revolutions to adjust the height.

As of maintenance. This fork does not require any maintenance, say, aside from the very infrequent seal change when they go bad, which is far less frequently than Fox. I essentially outlined the optimal maintenance cycle which will keep the fork performing at it's best. It is far more reliable fork than just about any fork out there. All Marzocchis need a little extra love in the beginning in order to return lots of love for years afterwards. Like all Marzocchis, an experienced user can get a lot more out of them by messing with oil levels, weights, etc. An inexperienced one, will still benefit from sheer joy of running a fork as smooth as the AM1 which offers excellent bottomout resistance for the bigger hits, while being ultra plush on all other elements of the trail.

Why 130-150? I don't see myself ever running it at anything less than 130. The damper in the 110-130 model also has slightly different means of attaching the dampers to the lowers which makes it not compatibile with Z1 lowers, which in turn would prevent you from running 20mm lowers if you ever chose to do so.

If you want a quick handling bike, forget about the AM1, unless you're cool with running it at 110mm.

_MK

Really wish I could afford to pick up a new front wheel and run a Pike. The U-Turn with the lower AC height would allow me to dial in the ride I wanted. Wishful thinking I guess. I would be sold on the AM1 if it weren't for the slacker head angle. My Spot is the closest thing I have to a XC bike. My climbing is poor enough as it is with running a 125mm fork.

 

[MK_]

Really wish I could afford to pick up a new front wheel and run a Pike. The U-Turn with the lower AC height would allow me to dial in the ride I wanted. Wishful thinking I guess. I would be sold on the AM1 if it weren't for the slacker head angle. My Spot is the closest thing I have to a XC bike. My climbing is poor enough as it is with running a 125mm fork.

So get the Revelation Air U-Turn.

_MK

 

[Severum]

In the spring you should slap that Pike on there with the bulb wheel and see how it feels. Give it 5 rides before you decide.