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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I currently have a Medium Ells Moment. Moments tend to run a little big so I was going to buy Small Moment Frame. Well, I got turned on to the Rune and cannot stop thinking about it and am thinking about buying the Rune instead of the small Moment.

I have been lurking in this forum for a couple of weeks and notice all of you are very happy with your Runes. I have even noticed a few Turner guys on Runes.

My question is does anybody have any input how the VF4B compares to the ICT? I am really pleased with my Moments performance and do not have the ability to test ride a Rune anywhere here in New Mexico.

I have read comparisons between the Turners and Nomads to the Rune but not the Moment. Any input would be appreciated.
 

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Does anybody have experience with both theVF4Band the ICT, I'm sure he would appreciate the input. Pros and Cons of each. I would help him out but I haven't had the chance to ride either of them. I currently ride an 07 nomad and I am also considering the switch to a Rune. Thinking of building up a Rune for all mtn riding and also getting a dh bike as well. The Legend looks like a great option for a dh bike.
 

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For what its worth the older HL Turners had the ICT suspension. Turner had to license ICT from Ellsworth. I think this was in '05-'06. Turners suspension design did not change at all during those years, it was just the Ellsworth patented the "design" and went after everyone using a similar design. Odd, because they were both using the HL design from Specialized.

I know quite a few guys that rode Turners in the past are riding Runes and Spitfires. You might be able to get their opinions and find some info using the search function. It sounds like most guys are very happy when going from their HL/4 Bar designs to their Runes.

I think you will notice the geometry differences more than anything between the Moment and Rune. They are both very nice bikes, its just which one suits your riding style better. If I had my choice between the two frames I would definitely go with the Rune. I wouldn't consider one an upgrade over the other, just personal preference.

TG
 

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I've ridden both. I prefer a dual link over a Horst link now. ICT is a Horst link, nothing else. It's a way to market a Horst link bike and make it look different. Ellsworth pays Specialized to use the Horst link patent. The Rune has better anti-squat characteristics. You don't need propedal on a Rune.

The Moment is a nice bike but a little dated. The Rune can be run with less sag leaving you with a bike that feels like it has more travel than it does. It also has a 1.5" headtube which will let you run K9 or Works cups to change the geometry a bit if you prefer.. Both bikes are stiff but the Rune does not squat under power climbing like the Moment does. Both bikes suspension works while braking. I prefer the Rune after riding both bikes, but that is just my opinion. Read some of the Rune threads and you'll see a lot of guys have come from Horst or Faux bar bikes and prefer the ride of the Rune over the others.

The other plus is the guys at Banshee are some of the best guys in the industry while Tony Ellsworth has to be one of the biggest ******s in the industry. As a consumer that translates to great customer service form Keith and Jay while you could write a book on the customer service issues with Ellsworth through the years.

Really, it's your choice but the Rune seems to be getting great reviews, while the moment and other Horst link bikes seem to be getting passed by. It's nice when the suspension design counters pedal induced bob vs. using the shock to do it.
 

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Yep, solid truth from G-Air and kmac999.
I have had a bunch of horst link bikes from different manufacturers- mainly Titus & Turner- and they all rode a little bit different. But, they all had some squat when climbing. The rune does not squat. This makes it feel more efficient, but the biggest benefits I noticed were A) The bike feels like it has more travel, since it rides higher up in the suspension, and B) the geometry remains consistent and stable compared to other suspension designs, as the bike does not "hobby horse" when you shift or brake.
 

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I came from a turner 5 spot, Rune is a million billion times better! Though the geometry and purposes are totally different, my 5 spot was almost as fast as my XC race bike do to the geometry, my rune most definitely is not, it is no slouch though and way more fun to ride then the 5 spot. I'm now hitting jumps and lines I never dreamed of doing last year on my turner.
The pedal efficiency is much better on the rune, hardly any pedal bob and no need for any platform.
My next XC race bike will most definitely be a similar design to the Rune's suspension, Right now I'm using a yeti AS-R which is I guess similar to Turners TNT? The bike is totally dependent on the platform of a fox rp23. It is an awesome, fast race bike with great geometry, but the suspension design is too dated and inferior in my opinion...
 

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I've ridden a Moment long enough to compare it to the Rune I've been on for the last year. They are both great bikes and probably equally capable for what they are designed to do.

The Moment pedals better, although I set my Rune up with over 30 percent sag, which isn't too good for pedaling efficiency on this particular frame. Other than pedaling, I think the Rune does pretty much everything else a little better than the Moment, especially if you are into freeride.

The Rune is a more maneuverable bike, which is why it slightly outperforms the Moment. The only things you'll miss about your Moment are a little less chain slap and a little less maintenance. If you go with a Rune, I highly recommend a coil shock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
JD Risk said:
I've ridden a Moment long enough to compare it to the Rune I've been on for the last year. They are both great bikes and probably equally capable for what they are designed to do.

The Moment pedals better, although I set my Rune up with over 30 percent sag, which isn't too good for pedaling efficiency on this particular frame. Other than pedaling, I think the Rune does pretty much everything else a little better than the Moment, especially if you are into freeride.

The Rune is a more maneuverable bike, which is why it slightly outperforms the Moment. The only things you'll miss about your Moment are a little less chain slap and a little less maintenance. If you go with a Rune, I highly recommend a coil shock.
Thanks. Interestingly though, why less maintenance on the Moment? Fortunately, I believe the shock sizes are the exact same for Moment and Rune. If that holds true, I can use my RC2 Coil that I have new on my Moment.

I am very pleased with my Moment except that it is just too long for me and I want something I can "control" more on the techy downs and want to hit jumps more comfortably. I do the climbs because I have to but I am looking for the performance coming down, not going up.
 

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Reason why the Rune requires more maintenance is because it uses bushings, rather than sealed bearings. For obvious reasons, bushings need to be kept clean to operate properly and last, and the lack of seals means that dirt and water can easily get in.

With the Rune, you should generally look at re-greasing the pivots every 3-4 rides, depending on the conditions, using the grease ports, which push out the dirty grease, and stripping down the pivots every couple of months. This is a very easy task, albeit a little messy. The plush side is that bushings are a lot cheaper to replace than bearings.

It's no hassle really, and I actually like the way the bushing system encourages you to know every working part of the bike. It is: however, far from being a "fit-and-forget" system.
 

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mikey74 said:
Reason why the Rune requires more maintenance is because it uses bushings, rather than sealed bearings. For obvious reasons, bushings need to be kept clean to operate properly and last, and the lack of seals means that dirt and water can easily get in.

With the Rune, you should generally look at re-greasing the pivots every 3-4 rides, depending on the conditions, using the grease ports, which push out the dirty grease, and stripping down the pivots every couple of months. This is a very easy task, albeit a little messy. The plush side is that bushings are a lot cheaper to replace than bearings.

It's no hassle really, and I actually like the way the bushing system encourages you to know every working part of the bike. It is: however, far from being a "fit-and-forget" system.
Huh!?...Just the opposite!

Bushings will purge themselves. Just add grease through the zerks (maybe ever 6 months) and be done with it. No need to tear it down every few months. That's crazy talk right there;)

The one problem I have with bushes is that if any part of the frame is out of tolerance, the frame can have some stiction. I would think a little more so than with sealed bearings...but I haven't owned one of those if a few years.:D

Inspect the frame before you build it up. If you can cycle the suspension (without the shock mounted) with relative ease, then you are good to go. Good luck with your purchase....
 

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On a 09 Pyre last year and VF4B. On a Moment and ICT this year.

One of the biggest difference I find is the anti squat characteristics. VF4B frames seem to ride much higher in their travel. This is nice for many of the reasons already stated. Also nice for seated position during climbing.

I think it is going to come down to geo differences and anti squat characteristics.

One last thing to think about right now, the market SUCKS! It's gonna be hard to get what your Ellsworth is worth. I'm not saying they are made of gold or anything but you may take a big hit to make this change. You are the only one to decide if its worth that.

I really enjoy both :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Went for the purchase today. I was set on getting Black Ano. Matt at Dropnzone said Banshee had no Black Ano left. Narrowed it down to either White or Black Paint. I have only owned Ano bikes and like the durability. I will have to decide between those two colors. Saw one Black Paint on Rune Vanity thread. Looked good. Saw no whites. Seems like Black Ano is 80% of what Rune owners have.

One more question: I noticed the Rune has the RD cable housing going under the triangle. Is that an issue? I have a Specialized Stumpjumper with that routing and my cable tended to get dinged up with rocks flying up dinging it. Any others experience this?
 

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F.N.G said:
Went for the purchase today. I was set on getting Black Ano. Matt at Dropnzone said Banshee had no Black Ano left. Narrowed it down to either White or Black Paint. I have only owned Ano bikes and like the durability. I will have to decide between those two colors. Saw one Black Paint on Rune Vanity thread. Looked good. Saw no whites. Seems like Black Ano is 80% of what Rune owners have.
I'm pretty sure Banshee is only doing black ano on the "Gucci" build now.
 
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