[Mike H.]

Made a post in the wheels/tires forum, but, only 1 response... so, here I am again, hopefing to get more input.

I'm contemplating going with Mavic's new CrossMax SX wheelset(UST), but want to run my Maxis Minions (2.5 DH) which are not UST...

Wondering if anyone is running Mavic UST rims with Maxxis DH tires (2 ply wire bead), and, not running tubes in them.
Also wondering what was needed to make it work.
Also, I typically run 40-45psi tire pressure to avoid rim/rock bashing... so, not looking to run low pressure, just want to shed weight.


If this "system" is problematic, then I'll gor for XM719 rims (I think), and hope pro2 hubs, dt swiss spokes/nipples, and run tubes... cheaper, and not much heavier...
Anyone run a 19mm rim with 2.5 tires?

Thanks.

 

[Rover Nick]

As long as you get the tubeless version of the maxxis tires you should be fine because that is what UST is designed for. I don't have any expierince on the acutal setup. Such as if you need special rim strips or anything, but I'm soure someone else will chime in

 

[Tim F.]

Stan's system would seal it (most black walled tires, UST, and non-UST), no rim strip needed on tubless wheels, no problems. But the chemicals in the liguid have been known to weaken the sidewall bead area of most brands (Kendas, Continentals, and Maxis to name a few) of tires, even the tubeless variety. I wouldn't use it, except on tires that I've bought on close out, or something inexpensive. Jenson has Maxis Mobsters on sale for $10 a tire. This could be what your looking for, but carry a spare tube and a dollar-bill, or power bar wrapper just in-case you have to boot up a blown out side wall. Also wash the inside of the tire with soap and water before adding the Stans. Some Tire Manufacturers use a mold release the will counter act Stans sealing properties.

Why don't you just spend a few extra bucks and get Maxis UST's? FYI, I wouldn't suggest trying to mount Non UST tires with out some sort of sealant, it more than likely would just blow off the rim. I have blown two tubelss tires off a rime while mounting them, not fun. The second time it had Stans tire sealant, even less fun, and one hell of a mess.

 

[[email protected]]

The SX has an inside width much wider than 19mm. The 819 has a 19mm inside width. It should be fine with a 2.5 Maxxis.

I've set up a non tubless maxxis DH tire on a mavic UST rim with sucess (with stans fluid). If you run high pressure it will be OK but it can burp at lower pressure in DH situations.

 

[Mike H.]

I typically run ~45psi to avoid crashing my rims against the constant rock we ride.

So, non tubeless Maxxis, on UST Mavic rim, with just sealant, or, sealant and rim strip?

 

[TNC]

Mike, we've run tons of UST and non-UST combos for some years around my area. The one key to some level of guaranteed success is that if you use non-UST tires, they need to be relatively beefy...like that Minion you're considering. Hell...that tire is way burlier than most UST tires anyway. A beefy tire carcass, especially at the sidewall lets them survive rocks and avoid bead separation in heinous conditions. You don't have to go really that low on tire pressure because the carcass flexes nicely without a tube in it to a much better degree to provide equal or higher traction at higher pressures.

On rim sizes, for aggressive trail riding and some light FR, I run CrossMax XLs (similar to those you're considering) with 2.5 Michelins front and rear. They work fine, but for DH and such, I'd probably use one of my wheelsets with wider rims. I don't think it's problematic, but you're losing some of the wider footprint benefit of that larger tire on a narrow rim. You're making the tire taller, and some models might start getting out of their designed optimum contact point for cornering and such...not all tires, but some.

Put a little Stan's in there, and you should be good to go. I think this thing on Stan's eating up tires is overblown. I've left tires sitting on wheelsets with Stan's for months at a time without problems. You see some form of minor etching or roughness, but the tire's integrity doesn't seem to be compromised. Maybe some are having actual problems with some of those 400g XC racing tires or something.

 

[Tim F.]

No rim strip needed. Just the UST type of valve stem. UST rims are air tight. All you would need is liguid sealant. But check your side walls, around the bead area before each ride, even on new tires. I had a brand new Kenda Blue grove, blow it's side wall after only 10 days, not even two weeks. Luckily it was bought at Performance, so the allowed me to swap it for a new one.

Good luck

 

[bg.]

What TNC said

I've never heard of Stan's damaging the tire, that makes no sense. In either case, leave a tire on a bike long enough and it'll eventually start to go bad. The trick is to wear the tire out long before the rubber goes bad.

 

[SHIVER ME TIMBERS]

I ran Minions in front and highrollers in the back, both 2.5's

on drops, or jumps that you land a little sideways it will burb, harsh landings too....need to check tires before each day of riding....If you are doing shuttle runs I would check it after every run if the trail is long, rocky, or many drops....run 2 scoops of stans and replace that stuff every 3 to 4 months

 

[Tim F.]

Any one else, Tire failure/Stan's?

What TNC said

I've never heard of Stan's damaging the tire, that makes no sense. In either case, leave a tire on a bike long enough and it'll eventually start to go bad. The trick is to wear the tire out long before the rubber goes bad.

Check their (Stan's "No - Tubes") website. He has a list of brand names acceptable, and not acceptable. Also, some tire manufactures are recommending "NOT" using "Stan's" in their tires, including some that are on Stans "Acceptable" list. Also, my LBS, Trailhead Cyclery, a very repetuable shop, most of the wrenches (who also ride and race) warn against it.

Me, I've been using the stuff for a few years, with only a few incidents, were it actually caused side wall tire failure, along the tire bead. bead.Two out of the three times using Kenda's, (they actually, blew out early in the tire life, one within two weeks, 2nd only a month later) I would still be using it today, if their DH stripes weren't such a pain in the a## to mount to Sun Tomac series rims. I, do have it in my front tire (Mavic UST and Nokian UST tire) on my hard tail.

SMT, has Good results with Stans and Maxis, anyone else good or bad experience with it (Excluding, burping).

 

[njhcx4xlife]

I've had a lot of good experience with the stans sealant and michy tires (16 and 32 AT's). I also had good results with the sealant and panaracer FR tires on trail rides but the flimsy sidewalls were no match to DH. I think a lot to do with the sealant and DH is using a beefy tire...an flimsy tire is still a flimsy tire no matter how much sealant is in there. I also have a good buddy who sealed his kendas in a tent with a hand pump the night before a 24hr race and they worked a like a charm which leads me to believe it has a lot to do with the person setting up the stans. It certainly takes practice because the first few tires I sealed sucked and I swore stans was terrible and now I love it since I got good at it and found tires that work well.....but thats just my .02

 

[Mike H.]

Well.
I've done it.
SX wheelset is in the back of the truck... along with a jug of stans sealant.
Wish me luck.

 

[davep]

Your set up will be great. There is NO problems using stans sealant at all. The sealant does NOT degrade tire rubber in any way at all. I run stans with all kinds of tires (maxxis, Mich, Kenda) without any problems at all. Sometimes getting tubeless to seat can be a little difficult unless you have a compressor. I sometimes use a C02 inflator to get the bead to seat..then add Stand and inflate to the propper PSI.

Check their (Stan's "No - Tubes") website. He has a list of brand names acceptable, and not acceptable. Also, some tire manufactures are recommending "NOT" using "Stan's" in their tires, including some that are on Stans "Acceptable" list. Also, my LBS, Trailhead Cyclery, a very repetuable shop, most of the wrenches (who also ride and race) warn against it.

Me, I've been using the stuff for a few years, with only a few incidents, were it actually caused side wall tire failure, along the tire bead. bead.Two out of the three times using Kenda's, (they actually, blew out early in the tire life, one within two weeks, 2nd only a month later) I would still be using it today, if their DH stripes weren't such a pain in the a## to mount to Sun Tomac series rims. I, do have it in my front tire (Mavic UST and Nokian UST tire) on my hard tail.

SMT, has Good results with Stans and Maxis, anyone else good or bad experience with it (Excluding, burping).

Tim, you are making lots of incorrect assumptions, and spreading these as fact..they are not! The warning on the Stans site is in reference (if you read it) to using poorly reinforced non-ust tires in a tubeless application. Lightweight non tubeless tires are not designed to take the same type of bead tension and forces that a tubeless set-up can apply. This has NOTHING to do with sealant (stans or otherwise) it is a function of the tire construction. Many of the problems were seen with Kenda single ply tires, it is no surprise that these tires have some of the thinnest and weakest sidewalls on MTB tires today. Kenda DH tires work tubeless without any problems...infact just about (all that I have tried) any reinforced DH tire will work tubeless perfectly. Many people prefer to use some Stans sealant as it will seal small cuts, seal any imperfections in the tire casing, and it will semi-glue the bead to the rim..helping to prevent any burping that can be caused by very low DH pressures.

Search here and the DH board on Ridemonkey for Mikeb. He works for stans and has posted LOTS of info that will help you have a better understanding of the truth vs fiction surrounding stans products...

 

[Mike H.]

davep,
Are you saying the stans is "optional" when running a non-ust DH tire on ust rim?
I'd be happy if it were not "required".

 

[SHIVER ME TIMBERS]

SMT, has Good results with Stans and Maxis, anyone else good or bad experience with it (Excluding, burping).

for the same weight I run the 2.6 michelins....the rolling resistence is slower but they last a long time.....I also like to rotate my tires.....when back one wears out I move front to the back and then replace the front tire with the bran new one....You can't do this if you run specific front and back tires though

 

[SHIVER ME TIMBERS]

davep,
Are you saying the stans is "optional" when running a non-ust DH tire on ust rim?
I'd be happy if it were not "required".

I wouldn't do it....I had trouble sealing the tire without Stans with Non UST tires....seriously I run the stuff...you would be surprised how much stuff you run over and the stans seals it, so I wouldn't do it with UST tires and rims either, but you can with that combo

you need to replace the stans every 3 to 5 months......dryier conditions warrant the 3 months

 

[TNC]

Mike you're gonna need the Stan's. Even though that Minion is beefy, the casing doesn't have a totally non-porous nature to it like UST. Also the Stan's does a cool little number at the bead/rim interface that insures a better seal. And additionally you'd be amazed at how the Stan's can often seal a small rock poke. Use it...it's worth it.

 

[Tim F.]

Your set up will be great. There is NO problems using stans sealant at all. The sealant does NOT degrade tire rubber in any way at all. I run stans with all kinds of tires (maxxis, Mich, Kenda) without any problems at all. Sometimes getting tubeless to seat can be a little difficult unless you have a compressor. I sometimes use a C02 inflator to get the bead to seat..then add Stand and inflate to the propper PSI.

Tim, you are making lots of incorrect assumptions, and spreading these as fact..they are not! The warning on the Stans site is in reference (if you read it) to using poorly reinforced non-ust tires in a tubeless application. Lightweight non tubeless tires are not designed to take the same type of bead tension and forces that a tubeless set-up can apply. This has NOTHING to do with sealant (stans or otherwise) it is a function of the tire construction. Many of the problems were seen with Kenda single ply tires, it is no surprise that these tires have some of the thinnest and weakest sidewalls on MTB tires today. Kenda DH tires work tubeless without any problems...infact just about (all that I have tried) any reinforced DH tire will work tubeless perfectly. Many people prefer to use some Stans sealant as it will seal small cuts, seal any imperfections in the tire casing, and it will semi-glue the bead to the rim..helping to prevent any burping that can be caused by very low DH pressures.

Search here and the DH board on Ridemonkey for Mikeb. He works for stans and has posted LOTS of info that will help you have a better understanding of the truth vs fiction surrounding stans products...

No assumptions made. The tires were WIRE BEADED, DH tires. The only thing that can be ASSUMED is that there have been enough cases of Kenda's tires beads blowing out. The following is from Kenda's web site, also Schwalb tires have precautions.

DO NOT USE any fluuid based sealant product in your KENDA tires

Dear Kenda Valued Customer,

KENDA WILL NOT AND DOES NOT ENDORSE THE USE OF ANY FLUID BASED SEALANT PRODUCTS IN KENDA TUBE TYPE OR TUBELESS TYPE TIRES. USE OF ANY FLUID BASED PRODUCT IN KENDA TIRES WILL VOID ANY WARRANTY CLAIMS.

THANK YOU!

Kenda Management

If you have any questions, please contact us at:

Tel: (614) 866-9803 x1

Fax: (614) 866-9805

Toll Free: (866) 536-3287 x1

[email protected]

Also Schwalbe tires:
https://www.mtbtires.com/tech/sealant_test/pics_seal/schwalbe_disclaimer.gif

I don't have anything against Stan's, I think it works great, and like I mentioned earlier have used it for years now (since they 1st came to market). Most tires hold up well, but on occasion I have had a few blow out their side walls Kenda's, and Continental. I've only run Maxxis withe tubes, because my LBS advised me to avoid Stan's, because they have had problems in the past with sidewall failures as well.

Will I continue to use Stan's? Definately yes.
Will I use it in a tire that I paid a butt-load of money on (Maxxis UST)? Maybe, but I, would probually use it only for a race, or for a ride were the chances of flatting were good, and I would wash the tire out afterwards. At least until the thread started to wear down, at that point it wouldn't matter if it blew out, because it would need to be replaced soon anyway.

Here's a test done by mtbtiers .com. They tested how well Stan's actually seals, and it's effects of amonia degrading rubber. The result's were negative, but it doen't reflect that fact that it does happen...DAMMIT!!

https://www.mtbtires.com/tech/sealant_test/index.html

Also, Mikeb works for Stan's, of coarse he's not going to say any thing bad against their system.:ciappa:

 

[davep]

As others have said, the non-ust tires are not guaranteed to be 100% air tight...some are some are not. Without it, you may have a slow, unidentifiable leak that results in a flat in 1 - 10 hours. With it, my tires keep air over the winter no prob.

I cant see a reason to not use a little stans, it offers lots of benefits, as mentioned above.

Tim, I dont mean to argue, but go read what mikeb has posted. He has done LOTS of scientific research and testing with different tires to come up with some real answers about stans and tire rubber. These tire Mfg are just guessing and protecting thier asses as far as liability and warranty, as they should be. Last I heard, (from mike I think) kenda had admitted stans does not harm thier tires at all, they just do not want people running non-ust Kendas as tubeless due to the forces involved.

 

[Tim F.]

As others have said, the non-ust tires are not guaranteed to be 100% air tight...some are some are not. Without it, you may have a slow, unidentifiable leak that results in a flat in 1 - 10 hours. With it, my tires keep air over the winter no prob.

I cant see a reason to not use a little stans, it offers lots of benefits, as mentioned above.

Tim, I dont mean to argue, but go read what mikeb has posted. He has done LOTS of scientific research and testing with different tires to come up with some real answers about stans and tire rubber. These tire Mfg are just guessing and protecting thier asses as far as liability and warranty, as they should be. Last I heard, (from mike I think) kenda had admitted stans does not harm thier tires at all, they just do not want people running non-ust Kendas as tubeless due to the forces involved.

No worries. Could have been that the Kenda's I had were from a bad lot. When I returned them to Performance (not that I'm a cheap-skape, but both tires were almost brand new). The Assistant Manager said that he had seen a few of them returned for the same reason (wire bead seperation, from the tire). The Conti's that blew out, were pretty old were, about to be replaced anyway because of thread wear. :idea: