Details, please!Ventanarama said:
Maverick single-crown pics & weight....
Got some of the new Maverick SC-32 forks in today. 1750g including the stanchion guards and with a 10" uncut steerer. Here's a few pics.....
Larry Mettler
http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com
Larry Mettler
http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com
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ugg..single crown inverted. Bad idea jeans...
pricing?
What the retail on one of those?
What the retail on one of those?
Remains to be seen with this particular product.Jm. said:ugg..single crown inverted. Bad idea jeans...
Of course, we'll see won't we?
dd..''
There was a big advantage to designing the double crown DUC32 inverted, this dissapears with single crown inverted forks...dodjy said:Remains to be seen with this particular product.
Of course, we'll see won't we?
dd..''
Please elaborate.Jm. said:There was a big advantage to designing the double crown DUC32 inverted, this dissapears with single crown inverted forks...
This disadvantage you speak of remains to be seen with this particular product. Of course, AGAIN, we will see...Jm. said:There was a big advantage to designing the double crown DUC32 inverted, this dissapears with single crown inverted forks...
d./
unsprung weight is a marginal benefit at best, because Mg fork lowers are extremely light, and a slight difference in the tire and wheel that you could could completely negate this "benefit.Nat said:Please elaborate.
there is no more overlap to a single crown inverted as there is to a single crown-standard fork, this is a KEY issue and why a single crown inverted is so much different than a double crown inverted fork. The double crown inverted fork has MORE bushing overlap than a standard double crown fork, this is a very importance difference between inverted DCs vs inverted SCs...
There is huge lack of stiffness because the brake arch is missing, this would go "through the wheel" obviously on an inverted fork, so it has to be "left off", but it's key to resisting flex.
The only way an inverted fork can be "stiffer" is for-aft because it usually has bigger uppers than the stanchions, and it just happens that those uppers are usually bigger than most standard fork's stanchions. This is not an advantage though, because you can simply increase the stanchion size on a standard fork and completely negate this percieved benefit. Fox forks are a good example of this, especially the new 36mm freeride fork they are comming out with.
There is simply no good reason to make an inverted single crown fork. I have one and it is "ok" at best, great damping but there's just a huge difference in the stiffness and feel of my single crown shiver vrs my double crown shiver. They share the same name and some similer features, but the DC version is a difference like night and day in terms of stiffness and tracking. I don't doubt that maverick could build a better SC inverted fork than marzocchi if they put enough time and effort into it, but it's a lost cause because you still have to overcome the disadvantages, and in the end with the same amount of engineering and time, you could have made a standard fork that is just as light, and way stiffer, or make some other tradeoffs that would be worthwhile.
I believe that maverick has already "forgotten" about superior engineering and design and is just producing something that "looks" like their other fork, and they kind of don't really care whether they could make as good, or a better product as a single crown standard design.
You could have saved yourself alot of typing if you would have just said,Jm. said:unsprung weight is a marginal benefit at best, because Mg fork lowers are extremely light, and a slight difference in the tire and wheel that you could could completely negate this "benefit.
there is no more overlap to a single crown inverted as there is to a single crown-standard fork, this is a KEY issue and why a single crown inverted is so much different than a double crown inverted fork. The double crown inverted fork has MORE bushing overlap than a standard double crown fork, this is a very importance difference between inverted DCs vs inverted SCs...
There is huge lack of stiffness because the brake arch is missing, this would go "through the wheel" obviously on an inverted fork, so it has to be "left off", but it's key to resisting flex.
The only way an inverted fork can be "stiffer" is for-aft because it usually has bigger uppers than the stanchions, and it just happens that those uppers are usually bigger than most standard fork's stanchions. This is not an advantage though, because you can simply increase the stanchion size on a standard fork and completely negate this percieved benefit. Fox forks are a good example of this, especially the new 36mm freeride fork they are comming out with.
There is simply no good reason to make an inverted single crown fork. I have one and it is "ok" at best, great damping but there's just a huge difference in the stiffness and feel of my single crown shiver vrs my double crown shiver. They share the same name and some similer features, but the DC version is a difference like night and day in terms of stiffness and tracking. I don't doubt that maverick could build a better SC inverted fork than marzocchi if they put enough time and effort into it, but it's a lost cause because you still have to overcome the disadvantages, and in the end with the same amount of engineering and time, you could have made a standard fork that is just as light, and way stiffer, or make some other tradeoffs that would be worthwhile.
I believe that maverick has already "forgotten" about superior engineering and design and is just producing something that "looks" like their other fork, and they kind of don't really care whether they could make as good, or a better product as a single crown standard design.
"looks flexy."
Sure is a looooong way from axle to crown.
Even with just a conventional single crown fork, you get three support locations--axle, arch, and crown. When you don't have an arch, there is a lot of distance to get leverage on that unsupported section of fork. Obviously the arch isn't the cure-all for all of the dynamics that engineers have to wrestle with on forks, but it definitely helps with some of them. I'm not aware of anyone who has built an inverted single crown that even rivals, much less surpasses, a high quality conventional single crown in rigidity. It's a mighty tall order any way you look at it. All of the inverted single crowns that I recall were very nice looking forks, and that seems to be one of their draws. They're unique and sexy, and I think that's why fork companies build them. Also there are lots of riders who will enjoy these forks and never really notice that flex.dodjy said:This disadvantage you speak of remains to be seen with this particular product. Of course, AGAIN, we will see...
d./
Wow! Awesome looking, funny thing though, it weighs pretty much the same as the DC version cause mine was under 4 pounds with the upper crown and stem. It my even be heavier after you factor in a stem. That extra weight is somehwere in the fork.
I have friends that have ridden with the Mav guys and from what I hear they really hammer everything. I imagine this fork has already been abused beyond its intended use.
As far as Jm's views on the fork, I guess we'll have to wait and see after some people ride them. But then again, I had people telling me there's no way a 6" double crown fork lighter than my Vanilla could be better than said Vanilla and the Mav outclasses every fork within 2 or 3 pounds of it.
We'll see.
I have friends that have ridden with the Mav guys and from what I hear they really hammer everything. I imagine this fork has already been abused beyond its intended use.
As far as Jm's views on the fork, I guess we'll have to wait and see after some people ride them. But then again, I had people telling me there's no way a 6" double crown fork lighter than my Vanilla could be better than said Vanilla and the Mav outclasses every fork within 2 or 3 pounds of it.
We'll see.
Am I paranoid or does it look like the travel limiter/rebound adjuster knob is just waiting to slam into the underside of the downtube during the first wreck? What a strange crown design...
Considering some people have trouble with fox forks getting a tad close to the downtube, i think it is a fair comment.tscheezy said:Am I paranoid or does it look like the travel limiter/rebound adjuster knob is just waiting to slam into the underside of the downtube during the first wreck? What a strange crown design...
Time will tell I suppose.
It might just be an optical illusion.
Hey thanks for the input. We'll see if Maverick has answered any of those issues.Jm. said:unsprung weight is a marginal benefit at best, because Mg fork lowers are extremely light, and a slight difference in the tire and wheel that you could could completely negate this "benefit.
there is no more overlap to a single crown inverted as there is to a single crown-standard fork, this is a KEY issue and why a single crown inverted is so much different than a double crown inverted fork. The double crown inverted fork has MORE bushing overlap than a standard double crown fork, this is a very importance difference between inverted DCs vs inverted SCs...
There is huge lack of stiffness because the brake arch is missing, this would go "through the wheel" obviously on an inverted fork, so it has to be "left off", but it's key to resisting flex.
The only way an inverted fork can be "stiffer" is for-aft because it usually has bigger uppers than the stanchions, and it just happens that those uppers are usually bigger than most standard fork's stanchions. This is not an advantage though, because you can simply increase the stanchion size on a standard fork and completely negate this percieved benefit. Fox forks are a good example of this, especially the new 36mm freeride fork they are comming out with.
There is simply no good reason to make an inverted single crown fork. I have one and it is "ok" at best, great damping but there's just a huge difference in the stiffness and feel of my single crown shiver vrs my double crown shiver. They share the same name and some similer features, but the DC version is a difference like night and day in terms of stiffness and tracking. I don't doubt that maverick could build a better SC inverted fork than marzocchi if they put enough time and effort into it, but it's a lost cause because you still have to overcome the disadvantages, and in the end with the same amount of engineering and time, you could have made a standard fork that is just as light, and way stiffer, or make some other tradeoffs that would be worthwhile.
I believe that maverick has already "forgotten" about superior engineering and design and is just producing something that "looks" like their other fork, and they kind of don't really care whether they could make as good, or a better product as a single crown standard design.
Jm and Maverick have duked it out here before. Mav's main counter-argument was "what do you do for a living?"
I would be scared to scratch those exposed lowers (despite the tupperware guards). When I look at all the chunks I have taken out of my current fork sliders, it makes me shudder to think of those hits being taken by the stanchion tubes...
I would be scared to scratch those exposed lowers (despite the tupperware guards). When I look at all the chunks I have taken out of my current fork sliders, it makes me shudder to think of those hits being taken by the stanchion tubes...
Stiffness remains to be seen. I don't find it hard to believe that it could end up being considerably stiffer than a Fox Float. The Noleen Mega Air is just as stiff. The Maverick DUC32 is WAY more stiff than either. Those 24 mm thru-axles and solid clamps play a big part in that.
The weight is what is the biggest surprise to me. I would have expected it to be lighter since a 4" version of the DUC32 would be lighter than that. I just don't see the point if it's not lighter.
I suppose one advantage is that you use a regular stem. The DUC32 has a limited selection (too short) but all-together (DUC32, stem, hub) still weighs about the same as a noodley (by comparison) Fox. Although the Fox has much better damping.
I wonder if the damping on the SC32 is more race-oriented than the DUC32 (pogo stick... I mean freeride).
The weight is what is the biggest surprise to me. I would have expected it to be lighter since a 4" version of the DUC32 would be lighter than that. I just don't see the point if it's not lighter.
I suppose one advantage is that you use a regular stem. The DUC32 has a limited selection (too short) but all-together (DUC32, stem, hub) still weighs about the same as a noodley (by comparison) Fox. Although the Fox has much better damping.
I wonder if the damping on the SC32 is more race-oriented than the DUC32 (pogo stick... I mean freeride).
There are two real advantages here: 1) lower production costs, so it'll be cheaper, and 2) can be used on bikes who cannot take a dual crown. It's cheaper to produce because the welded lower crown on the DC is $$.
As far as Jm. is concerned, most of us ignore his posts. He has some sort of wierd agenda that is 100% focused on being anti-Maverick. They must've wronged him in a previous life.
I have ridden with some of the Maverick guys here over the last 6 months and can tell you they hammer the hell out of their equipment. There is riding up in the mtns west of Boulder that is some of the most technical in Colorado. It's definately been through some serious testing.
As far as Jm. is concerned, most of us ignore his posts. He has some sort of wierd agenda that is 100% focused on being anti-Maverick. They must've wronged him in a previous life.
I have ridden with some of the Maverick guys here over the last 6 months and can tell you they hammer the hell out of their equipment. There is riding up in the mtns west of Boulder that is some of the most technical in Colorado. It's definately been through some serious testing.
It's specc'ed as OEM on the '05 Fisher Cake DLX versions. I guess they can afford to crank up production, unlike the DUC forks.
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