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Discussion Starter #1
Just finished reading the ML7 & ML8 Review on the Mountain Bike Action december Issue, it mentions Taiwan as the Country of origin for both Models.......I thought maverickswere built in Colorado, or atleast the previous versions. Is this true ? it feels kind of weird to pay over $ 5.5 K for a bike made in Taiwan......Does anyone Know the actual origin of the frames?......thanks
 

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Maverick schmaverick

They used to be made in California. But now it seems that the BOTTOM line is what Maverick is focused on. It's pathetic that they have them made overseas and still charge so much for their frames. I was considering their Ml8, but not at that price. I'm getting a Turner...MADE IN AMERICA! Their prices are pretty ridiculous considering Mav. sells their frames wholesale for $1400 ish and mark the frames up to $2300 retail. Rip off since they're made in Taiwan. They're making a killing. BUY AMERICAN...send them a message.
 

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What a RIP OFF!!!!! ...I bought my ML7 on 2003, hope it is is not from Overseas, If it is, I am definetly puting it on E bay and ordering a Ventana or Turner.....What ever happend to the"small,garage style" "Custum name Head badge" ambiance that Maverick used to brag about????

Are the forks also being manufactured in Taiwan??

Oh, by the way,my bike rides great, but it just does not feel the same knowing that the bike is Taiwanese?.......... I was thinking of aquiring a ML8 , but I will definetly go for the Ventana or Turner......
 

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Yup

The forks too. I wonder how they can justify the $$$ they charge for such old school suspension valving in the frames and shocks that aren't even made by an expensive labor force. And to call themselves Maveric "AMERICAN"? Sounds like false advertising to me. Oh well It's more or less a variation on the Unified rear triangle and from some of the reviews I've read it has the same negative trait of stiffening the suspension when out of the saddle so I see no reason to spend anything close to the price they want.
 

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It is funny how some companies think that they need to go overseas to a huge manufactuering facility and still try to maintain the smaller indy status, well it doesn't work. Budwiser's "micro brews" have failed and so will Maverick. People want something different not something different that is made buy people who make mass marketed stuff. Why buy a Maverick fork that costs more and is going to be harder to service if it comes out of the same factory as say the Rock Shox or Manitou forks. The design is going to set it apart but the workers are going to give it any quality. It will be given the same care as a $200 R/S Judy (or what ever is made in the factory). Although they have thier own forum this is one subject where Ellsworth should get some praise. Instead of looking overseas to boost production they opened a brand new factory that not only is going to produce more and better quality frames but was also built be as "green" as possible so that in the future we all have a place to ride. The Asian plants could give a flying f*ck about what they are doing to the enviroment and are only concerned about low price. But after all that is the walmart way
 

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Agreed

It sucks to see a company that "started" as a innovating group of passionate cyclists become a money grubbing whore. My friend owns a shop, which carries the Maverick brand. He is not thrilled by the fact that they have moved production overseas; it was a great selling point to have an American made bike in his shop. Maybe they should change their name to Maverick "UN-American" It's not un-american to have a product made overseas, please don't get me wrong. But, it is wrong to label the bike American and give your consumers the impression that it was made here in the USA. According to my friend the numbers for the ml8 bike are: $1350 wholesale price to dealers. So Maverick is probably paying an overseas company $700ish to make the bike. Meaning: Maverick has a bike that cost them a lot less to make in Taiwan than america and they still rip you off $2300 for the frame. In other news...my friend says the duc 32 fork is about $430 wholesale with the stem and upper crown if bought from maverick. A reputable shop will include the stem and crown with the fork purchace.
 

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Your basic assumption is flawed

Respectfully, I find your basic assumption - American-made is better than Taiwan-made - flawed.

I suggest that the the "A" line at A-Pro in Taiwan produces better quality bicycle frames than the equivalent lines at Kinesis or Ano Inc.

I seriously doubt that any US-based welder has the capability of manufacturing the ML-8.

And, I believe that the cracking problems found among some boutique US brands is due to poor quality control at US-based manufacturers.

Incidentally, if you want to complain about bike prices, first you need to ask why bike shops charge $2800 for an ML-8 frame.

Did your bike shop prototype, test, and develop the design? Do they manufacture the bikes? Do they warranty product failures? Do they actually stock frames?

No? So, why do they make more well over $1,000 profit on every Maverick frame sold? Complain about the zero-value-added middleman, not Maverick.

Believe me, the guys at Maverick are not getting rich.
 

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Count Zero said:
Respectfully, I find your basic assumption - American-made is better than Taiwan-made - flawed.

I suggest that the the "A" line at A-Pro in Taiwan produces better quality bicycle frames than the equivalent lines at Kinesis or Ano Inc.

I seriously doubt that any US-based welder has the capability of manufacturing the ML-8.

And, I believe that the cracking problems found among some boutique US brands is due to poor quality control at US-based manufacturers.

Incidentally, if you want to complain about bike prices, first you need to ask why bike shops charge $2800 for an ML-8 frame.

Did your bike shop prototype, test, and develop the design? Do they manufacture the bikes? Do they warranty product failures? Do they actually stock frames?

No? So, why do they make more well over $1,000 profit on every Maverick frame sold? Complain about the zero-value-added middleman, not Maverick.

Believe me, the guys at Maverick are not getting rich.
Thanks for posting this, you've saved me the trouble.

The only bone I have to pick is in the area of bike shop profit. A good shop puts a significant amount of time into educating it's employees about product, training them how to set up and maintain product AND to be a good interface with the customer.

How many of your goods to you purchase direct from the manufacturer? If individuals could make purchases direct from a manufacturer (or designer as it is in this case), we would still be paying retail prices for the products. The frames still need to be prepped and now Maverick would be paying employees to take calls, inform customers of the choices and suggest build components for the frames. For the high end consumer who knows what he/she wants, this might be well and good, but the majority of people who purchase bikes like to have choices. You're not going to get that from one manufacturer.

Do you care to venture a guess as to what the final profit percentage is at a full service bike shop that carries bikes/clothes/accessories etc...? It's about 1%. Once you pay for the goods, your employees, all overhead costs and other charges, the owners come away with about an additional 1%.

Believe me, the few people who are getting rich in the cycling industry are on the manufacturing/specification end of it, not the bike retailer "middle man."

I think I could write on this topic for hours, but I won't because 1. I get side-tracked too often and 2. no one would read it.
 

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Smudge -

Hey, I agree with you that good bike shops add value. I continue to actively support my local bike shop, and they take good care of me when I need it.

My complaint is with shops that perform pure arbitrage. That is, those that stock nothing but commodity items and charge retail prices plus shipping on special orders, like bike frames and forks.

Finally, a friend of mine owns two large bike/ski/run/tennis stores in the Baltimore area. He tells me jokingly that they sell bikes to "Have something to do in the summertime". There's so much money in skis, you know?

Tommy
 

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respectfully...

I agree with what you guys are saying, too. I know the business; I just retired from it at 57yr old. So I know how it works; I've made enough to retire. I am not saying made overseas is flawed. The best bike I own now is foreign; Giant advanced road. I've never owned a domestic road bike because I LOVE the craftmanship and pricing of a foreign bike. Also, all my dealings with foreign companies have led me to 2 conclusions: they work harder than 95% of americans and they have great pride in their craftmanship. They will work for less because of socio-politcal reasons. Irregardless, they get the job done better and for cheaper. That aside, my bone of contention with an american company selling a product as "american" when it's made overseas is wrong. Morally and ethically companies should be obligated to let us know these facts. They want to sell products and yes they're making a good living, but what sells yesterday doens't sell today. Times change. So some companies will jump on the "Umm..sure it's made in the USA" wagon just to sell more products. It's sneaky and underhanded. I have ridden their bikes and like them a lot! Not a single complaint, but I'm a old man with pride in my country. I've been to war for this country (vietnam) and I hate seeing someone us our flag to sell something made somewhere else. Like you, I could go on....but I hope you get my point.

As far as prices at the bike shops...they have to make a living, too. Actually, they're the ones that usually get pinched by both supplier and customer rantings and beratings. We live in a free market economy, why not lift restrictions suppliers impose (MSRP) and let them sell at whatever price they want. Many times the shop doesn't set the price; the products manuf. sets that.
 

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The 2001-3 Mavericks were all made in the US. They were made by a custom Trek manufacturing facility or Kinesis. They're similar to Santa Cruz & Dean, neither of whom make their own frames. In '04 they started with Taiwan where they are still hand-built. These are guys with way more welding experience with this type of aluminium than in the US outside of the aerospace industry. I remember talking with TJ at Maverick when they sent the first Taiwan frames for DIN Plus testing, they were stronger than the US made ones. And the welds were better quality, more uniform. And what they wanted to do with the ML8, they couldn't find the quality in the US. Also the price dropped for an ML7 where it used to be $2800 frame + Psylo down to $2000 frame only...that's gotta be several hundred dollars at least.

Same goes for the DUC32 fork...the welded crown requires very precise tolerances, and they had to send far less back versus the prototypes that were made in the US.

I really wish they were made in the US...but more importantly, I want it to be well built, and if Taiwan is the best place, then fine.

Note: I may not be 100% right on everything as I am not a Maverick "insider" like so many others, but this is what I've heard from folks who work there or formerly worked there.
 

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I'm here.....

For those of you who do not own a Maverick you probably would have never met me, but my name is Dennis Valdez and I work in the Customer Service and Sales Dept. at Maverick. First thing first. We have changed our name from Maverick AMERICAN to simply Maverick. Judging by reading the posts above, this is the largest point of contention. Well we've changed our name and we don't advertise ourselves as Maverick American any longer. I was the first employee hired here last January after a lengthy restructuring process for the company. At that point, I was told that we were calling ourselves MAVERICK. So I guess I have no frame of reference that would imply any sort of deception on our part. We are making great efforts to make this company work and sell what we consider to be the most efficiently pedalling mountain bike thus far. If any of you have ever seen an ML 8 you would notice that the robotic welds on the top tube. We don't own a robotic welding machine. So that being said, we went to those people who do own something like this and we work together. We are a very creative company that does not always have all the resources needed to carry out every idea that we dream up. If you have any more questions I'll be more than happy to address them with any of you. You can contact me via phone or e-mail M-F 8 am-5pm MST 303.415.0370 x 15 or [email protected]
 

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So if Maverick has changed its name, how about updating the website. When I search on google for Maverick Bike, I get MaverickAmerican.com. The entire website continues to show the web pages as Maverickamerican.com. That is a bit misleading if you ask me.
 

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CDMC said:
So if Maverick has changed its name, how about updating the website. When I search on google for Maverick Bike, I get MaverickAmerican.com. The entire website continues to show the web pages as Maverickamerican.com. That is a bit misleading if you ask me.
The correct url is maverickbike.com. When you change your companies url it's standard practice to keep the old one alive since people may have it book-marked and also for SEO issues.
 

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good points Dennis

being in Bldr I see a lot of these bikes around--at the coffee shop & on the trail. I am sure they are very nice and the racers on them fly past me no problem. One of my buddies has one & races women's 40+. Maybe Tiawan is an issue, but a bigger one seems to be the restructuring efforts & the name change, and what is does to a potential buyer's concerns over the company's stability. If one is dropping that much $$$ for a frame with a proprietiary (SP?) rear shock, one hopes it is stable enough to be around for a while. I hope that is the case.
 

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We are around for good!!!! We have gone from 2 employees a year ago to ten of us working as hard as we possibly can to make these frames and our customer service next to none. I drive an hour and ten minutes each way to have the pleasure of working here. I wouldn't have left the stability of my previous job if I didn't believe in the product and know for sure that we would be around year after year. I can respect other people's opinion of us as a company. I usually read about what everybody says, but I rarely respond to anything due to the fact that I could make a 60 hr a week job just out of talking to all the experts on the boards here. I think if you asked around about what the average Maverick consumer has noticed most over the last year, I think it would be our commitment to technical services and customer retention. We are trying our best and hopefully those consumers who choose to purchase a Maverick will feel that we are being attentive to their needs and wants.
 

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My Taiwanese anodised ML-7 is the best-finished mountain bike I've seen, and the frame cost a lot less than when it was made in America. The other bikes whose finish I've admired are any number of Italian road bikes...

So would all you people who want a completely American bike prefer Maverick to reduce their design activity and weld frames for the public instead?

Some of you may prefer Paul Turner on the production line even if it costs a bit more, and produces poorer bikes. But personally I'd rather Paul concentrated on the clever stuff and left the welding to the Taiwanese who seem to be very good at it.
 

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applegreenheckler said:
It is funny how some companies think that they need to go overseas to a huge manufactuering facility and still try to maintain the smaller indy status, well it doesn't work. Budwiser's "micro brews" have failed and so will Maverick. People want something different not something different that is made buy people who make mass marketed stuff. Why buy a Maverick fork that costs more and is going to be harder to service if it comes out of the same factory as say the Rock Shox or Manitou forks. The design is going to set it apart but the workers are going to give it any quality. It will be given the same care as a $200 R/S Judy (or what ever is made in the factory). Although they have thier own forum this is one subject where Ellsworth should get some praise. Instead of looking overseas to boost production they opened a brand new factory that not only is going to produce more and better quality frames but was also built be as "green" as possible so that in the future we all have a place to ride. The Asian plants could give a flying f*ck about what they are doing to the enviroment and are only concerned about low price. But after all that is the walmart way

Your Apple Green Heckler was made in Taiwan.
 

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VPP vs SINGLEPIVOT

Santacruz making their singlepivot in Taiwan but all of their VPP frames are handmade in the USA in the same place that make turner,Ellsworth and Ventana if I remember well.The quality control , finsing and assmbel are made in the little factory in santacruz as all the desgin powdercoating and prototyping and I am about all I've just worth here.But what I have to say is that the Taiwan handmade is very good to .
 
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