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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know what Manitou accepts as "within tolerance"?

I recently purchased a 216x63 McLeod from Germany to replace a Fox DHX of the same eye to eye and stroke.

Removed the standard air can to install a king can and lubricate things, I've read on here that these shocks can be a little dry from the factory. Sure enough, it had almost no visible lubrication, just a very thin oily "sheen" on the damper shaft and seals.

Anyways, after I installed the Manitou on my 165mm travel Devinci I was a little puzzled why the shock linkage was now sitting very close to the seat tube.

I thought I forgot the red foam bumper and the shock is now too long but remove, open, verify, reassemble, and reinstall the shock - with the same result - so I started measuring.

With the king can my 216x63 McLeod has an eye-to-eye measurement of 219mm and a stroke of 61mm up to hard bottom out. It is noticeably longer than the Fox, which measures exactly 216mm. The Fox also bottoms out at basically exactly 63mm compression.

+3mm eye to eye on a frame with a starting leverage ratio of more than 3 is close to 10mm at the wheel.

It would be okay if the shock also gave me 66mm stroke and I could add a 3mm spacer but 219x61 seems like a bad deal.

Are these huge dimension tolerances normal for Manitou?

Is this possibly a problem with the king can? I never measured the shock eye to eye and stroke dimensions before removing the standard can.

What are my options for addressing this?
 

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When you remove the single air-can and install the king-can you need to fit 2 top-out pads. That fixes your length issue.

For the stroke. The Fox and the Manitou will both have 63mm stroke including the bottom-out pad (fox uses a 2.5mm o-ring). If your Fox measures 63mm when it touches the o-ring then you have something wrong inside.

Are you telling us your discount online seller didn't help you with product knowledge or support?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
When you remove the single air-can and install the king-can you need to fit 2 top-out pads. That fixes your length issue.

For the stroke. The Fox and the Manitou will both have 63mm stroke including the bottom-out pad (fox uses a 2.5mm o-ring). If your Fox measures 63mm when it touches the o-ring then you have something wrong inside.

Are you telling us your discount online seller didn't help you with product knowledge or support?
Well, it has been weekend there... Not that it would make much difference, no suspension shops around here seem to touch Manitou rear shocks.

Thanks for the reply, there's hope then.

Several weeks ago my son blew the DHX and pancaked the rear wheel after casing a monster gap and that was the last hurrah. The shaft's not broken but apparently the shock made a loud pop that his friends could hear over the other commotion.

The Manitou king can came with the seal set shown in this Hayes product page

1947016


Is that product listing incorrect and the extra topout pad is in fact included with the can, or does the listing show the contents correctly and I also had to buy an additional air can seal kit that includes another topout bumper? The Manitou instructions do not indicate this one way or another, whether specifying what's included or detailing the extra required bumper in the King Can installation one-pager...
 

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Installing an extra topout bumper might rein eye to eye back in, but also reduces stroke by the same amount.
 
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Installing an extra topout bumper might rein eye to eye back in, but also reduces stroke by the same amount.
Yeah, I basically made my own to reduce the eye to eye and travel of my shock to fit my pivot. Just had to do something like a few mm and it gave me like 101 or 102mm of travel technically on my 100mm bike, well within what the bike could handle, but stock it was too long and would have too much travel. I think I just searched for the OD and ID I needed and found some plastic spacers online or something.
 

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Well, it has been weekend there... Not that it would make much difference, no suspension shops around here seem to touch Manitou rear shocks.

Thanks for the reply, there's hope then.

Several weeks ago my son blew the DHX and pancaked the rear wheel after casing a monster gap and that was the last hurrah. The shaft's not broken but apparently the shock made a loud pop that his friends could hear over the other commotion.

The Manitou king can came with the seal set shown in this Hayes product page

View attachment 1947016

Is that product listing incorrect and the extra topout pad is in fact included with the can, or does the listing show the contents correctly and I also had to buy an additional air can seal kit that includes another topout bumper? The Manitou instructions do not indicate this one way or another, whether specifying what's included or detailing the extra required bumper in the King Can installation one-pager...
For that shock you need two top-out pads. I know because I've run them.

Installing an extra topout bumper might rein eye to eye back in, but also reduces stroke by the same amount.
Stroke is correct when length is correct. They over-extend without the air-can and top-out pads.

What does that mean?

With the king can you get less shock stroke?
No. Stroke is correct when length is correct. These shocks have 63mm stroke including the bumper. Just like every other shock.
Talk to the place you bought the king-can from for an extra pad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Update time.

I cobbled together a ~3mm thick spacer to test the King Can fitment - @Kiwibaconator is correct, I get less than advertised (about 216 x 58 by my measurement).

As for getting my hands on that shaft spacer kit - my conclusion is that Manitou is for hobbyists, a bit like a Raspberry Pi is for hobbyists.

My "discount online seller" got back to immediately and has been trying to help me. Problem is - there is no part number for the King Can's shaft spacer kit and apparently Manitou engineering put these kits together as required and you have to deal with Hayes directly to get your hands on the parts. This was confirmed by the Canadian Manitou distributor a few days after I contacted him, he also shrugged and gave me Hayes' techsupport email address.

I tried contacting Hayes themselves unsuccessfully via phone and email. 3 unanswered emails to techsupport over the past 10 days and their 888 number is hopeless for reaching them via phone - the last 48 hours it's been "network difficulties" that's not allowing the calls to be completed, but please try again later, according to the elevator-music voice that answers after a few rings.

That leaves me shipping the shock back to the seller and no doubt them sending it back to Hayes as a dud.

I picked up a 2016 216x63 Monarch Plus on PinkBike for less than $70 (Canadian) which I assumed means a damper rebuild with possible shaft damage but, surprisingly, the shock is mint and works flawlessly.

That concludes my first and last Manitou encounter. And good riddance.
 

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For the stroke. The Fox and the Manitou will both have 63mm stroke including the bottom-out pad (fox uses a 2.5mm o-ring). If your Fox measures 63mm when it touches the o-ring then you have something wrong inside.
I pulled a 2019 210x55 Fox Re:Aktiv out a drawer and measured, both ETE and o-ring measured stroke is basically exactly 210 and 55 respectively.

At the time I removed it the shock was working just fine.
 

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Update time.

I cobbled together a ~3mm thick spacer to test the King Can fitment - @Kiwibaconator is correct, I get less than advertised (about 216 x 58 by my measurement).

As for getting my hands on that shaft spacer kit - my conclusion is that Manitou is for hobbyists, a bit like a Raspberry Pi is for hobbyists.

My "discount online seller" got back to immediately and has been trying to help me. Problem is - there is no part number for the King Can's shaft spacer kit and apparently Manitou engineering put these kits together as required and you have to deal with Hayes directly to get your hands on the parts. This was confirmed by the Canadian Manitou distributor a few days after I contacted him, he also shrugged and gave me Hayes' techsupport email address.

I tried contacting Hayes themselves unsuccessfully via phone and email. 3 unanswered emails to techsupport over the past 10 days and their 888 number is hopeless for reaching them via phone - the last 48 hours it's been "network difficulties" that's not allowing the calls to be completed, but please try again later, according to the elevator-music voice that answers after a few rings.

That leaves me shipping the shock back to the seller and no doubt them sending it back to Hayes as a dud.

I picked up a 2016 216x63 Monarch Plus on PinkBike for less than $70 (Canadian) which I assumed means a damper rebuild with possible shaft damage but, surprisingly, the shock is mint and works flawlessly.

That concludes my first and last Manitou encounter. And good riddance.
Lol at least the Canadian distributor responded to you.

I sent him a slow pitch manitou part number of what I wanted and received zero response.

Almost make me wanna try dvo instead.
 

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Update time.

I cobbled together a ~3mm thick spacer to test the King Can fitment - @Kiwibaconator is correct, I get less than advertised (about 216 x 58 by my measurement).

As for getting my hands on that shaft spacer kit - my conclusion is that Manitou is for hobbyists, a bit like a Raspberry Pi is for hobbyists.

My "discount online seller" got back to immediately and has been trying to help me. Problem is - there is no part number for the King Can's shaft spacer kit and apparently Manitou engineering put these kits together as required and you have to deal with Hayes directly to get your hands on the parts. This was confirmed by the Canadian Manitou distributor a few days after I contacted him, he also shrugged and gave me Hayes' techsupport email address.

I tried contacting Hayes themselves unsuccessfully via phone and email. 3 unanswered emails to techsupport over the past 10 days and their 888 number is hopeless for reaching them via phone - the last 48 hours it's been "network difficulties" that's not allowing the calls to be completed, but please try again later, according to the elevator-music voice that answers after a few rings.

That leaves me shipping the shock back to the seller and no doubt them sending it back to Hayes as a dud.

I picked up a 2016 216x63 Monarch Plus on PinkBike for less than $70 (Canadian) which I assumed means a damper rebuild with possible shaft damage but, surprisingly, the shock is mint and works flawlessly.

That concludes my first and last Manitou encounter. And good riddance.
You've done something really wrong. This photo is an 8.5x2.5 McLeod with king-can and the proper 2x top-out pads. I dropped pressure and slammed it.
Shows ~61-62mm stroke.

Automotive tire Audio equipment Gas Auto part Measuring instrument


Interesting how you buy a shock from a cheap off-shore seller. They can't help you and you want a local distributor to sort it out using their time and knowledge.
 

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I pulled a 2019 210x55 Fox Re:Aktiv out a drawer and measured, both ETE and o-ring measured stroke is basically exactly 210 and 55 respectively.

At the time I removed it the shock was working just fine.
Then your internal bottom-out bumper is missing or broken.
 

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That's odd. Manitou always picks up when I call and they even respond when I send hate mail.

Something definitely needs to be done about their part sales. I know it's not a sexy job, and in itself not a money maker, but if they had a worker posting all the small part numbers and descriptions on the Hayes website and got them shipped in a reasonable time, they'd have a lot more support for people doing shock and fork purchases, which will lead to more shock and fork purchases.

They don't even need how-to manuals. Just some descriptions of parts like, King Can Part #xxxx goes with Mara Pro models #xxx-yyy with spacer kit #xxxxx and here's where you can order all that.
 
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