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Piston as.jpg

Is there any porpose to the three tiny screws on black collar just under shims on the picture? I started to unscrew the screws before i realized i dont need to. Tightened them back but just wandering what the colar is.
Seems like it lets some float between shims and piston?
 

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about to open up the shock and do some shim tuning. i am pretty new to this so not sure i am understanding the graphs right. for compression stack i want to go with green graph using ipa 2 position. do i understand it right that it will give me more (about double) of a low speed damping and about same high speed damping as stock (light blue graph) ipa 1 position?
 

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New to me 185x50 trunnion mcleod.* Question on rebound stack.* I'm still waiting on my ifp tool so I can't tell you what my current stack is but i am running it nearly full slow.* Problem is that it either feels too slow or too fast with only an 1/8 of a turn. (basically the adjuster isn't fine enough) So assuming I have the latest stack any recommendations on increasing the overall stiffness of the stack while giving more fine control?

Thanks

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You sure it's actually too fast and not you wanting to run it way slower than ideal? I don't see much of a difference in 1/4 of a turn personally. What pressure are you running to be at the end of the range?
 

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I want a little less HSC and am considering one of the following two options based on the graphs and other posts above. Everything else being the same, what would be the difference in feel between these (platform, small bump, etc.)?

Option A:
8x10x.1
8x16x.1
8x14x.1
Gold piston

Option B:
8x11x.1
8x10x.1
8x16x.1
Gold piston


Shock is Metric McLeod with stock shim stack of ...
8x11x.1
8x16x.1
8x14x.1
Gold piston

Thanks
 

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I believe option a wouldn't make any difference, option B seems like a good choice for less HSC, if I were you I'd consider steeping down from 16mm HS shim to 14mm one instead of removing the HSC stack completely though, but that's my preference.
I mean something like this
Option C:
8x11x.1
8x14x.1
8x11x.1
Gold piston
I might be wrong though, I'm totally just guessing, I did find a setup that suits me myself second try that way though 🙃
Also, it's pretty unlikely I guess, but you might still have the rebound stack that covers the compression ports a little, adding unwanted high speed damping, upgrading that one to smaller diameter made a noticeable difference in my case, to the point where adding a HS shim where there were none still made a positive difference, as in giving less HS damping.
 

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You sure it's actually too fast and not you wanting to run it way slower than ideal? I don't see much of a difference in 1/4 of a turn personally. What pressure are you running to be at the end of the range?
I'm running 215 psi. Let me rephrase the problem. Full slow is too slow but when I turn the adjuster slightly towards fast it gets noticeably faster. Faster than one would expect. It's almost as if I'm right on the pivot point of the stack. Basically I just want to smooth out the adjustment.

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Yes, that kind of pressure makes sense to be at the edge of the range I guess, extrapolating from me using 90 and being exactly in the middle, you just have to add rebound shims then, depending on what's in there atm. Hard to tell before opening the shock, but we can make an educated guess that an additional .15 thickness shim wouldn't hurt, and might just be enough.
 

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New to me 185x50 trunnion mcleod.* Question on rebound stack.* I'm still waiting on my ifp tool so I can't tell you what my current stack is but i am running it nearly full slow.* Problem is that it either feels too slow or too fast with only an 1/8 of a turn. (basically the adjuster isn't fine enough) So assuming I have the latest stack any recommendations on increasing the overall stiffness of the stack while giving more fine control?

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G960U using tiny.cc/Mtbr_android_app
My McLeod behaves exactly the same way on the rebound adjustment. Fully closed is too slow and a tiny adjustment can have it rebounding too quickly. I've requested the IFP tool and the gold piston and shims several times now from Manitou but the requests get acknowledged and then forgotten about and nothing gets sent. I want to make the shock better at absorbing high speed square edge hits and try to get more control over the rebound too but in the meantime I've kind of given up asking so I've pulled the shock and it's gathering dust.
 

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My McLeod behaves exactly the same way on the rebound adjustment. Fully closed is too slow and a tiny adjustment can have it rebounding too quickly. I've requested the IFP tool and the gold piston and shims several times now from Manitou but the requests get acknowledged and then forgotten about and nothing gets sent. I want to make the shock better at absorbing high speed square edge hits and try to get more control over the rebound too but in the meantime I've kind of given up asking so I've pulled the shock and it's gathering dust.
Some of our Mcleods are behaving this exact way. The rebound knob acts like an on/off switch.

My question is-how does the rebound dial affect the shim stack?

The dial seems to be acting as though the shim stack is too loose on the piston and the oil is not being forced to bend the stack. I can stiffen up the shim stack but if oil is just running around it this will not help.
 

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The rebound dial doesnt affecty the stack at all, all it does is move the rebound curve around, it doesnt actually change the curve, by changing the shim stack you change the range of adjustment, so you may get an usable setting without closing the low speed adjuster completely, essentially you get more usable range, the last bit of adjsutment of course will always be pretty radical, cause you go from completely closed valve to open, its not linear, just like a car throttle.
 

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Yes, that kind of pressure makes sense to be at the edge of the range I guess, extrapolating from me using 90 and being exactly in the middle, you just have to add rebound shims then, depending on what's in there atm. Hard to tell before opening the shock, but we can make an educated guess that an additional .15 thickness shim wouldn't hurt, and might just be enough.
So which shim diameter should I add to the stack? 15mm? 12mm?

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Discussion Starter #176
Some of our Mcleods are behaving this exact way. The rebound knob acts like an on/off switch.

My question is-how does the rebound dial affect the shim stack?

The dial seems to be acting as though the shim stack is too loose on the piston and the oil is not being forced to bend the stack. I can stiffen up the shim stack but if oil is just running around it this will not help.
The rebound adjuster being so sensitive is a bi-product of needle shape. This has been updated for the Mara IL and the MY21 Mcleod. I personally have found the usable range to be around 3/16 of a turn. (From about 7/16 out to about 5/8 turn out) Realistically, the sweet spot is right at 1/2 turn out give or take a degree or two. Its a little annoying that its so sensitive, but it makes me happy the rebound adjuster doesn't have clicks.

The updated rebound stacks do help a little bit with this though. They add Mid-speed rebound damping which helps control the wheel better and makes the adjuster position a little bit less sensitive.
 

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Discussion Starter #177
I believe option a wouldn't make any difference, option B seems like a good choice for less HSC, if I were you I'd consider steeping down from 16mm HS shim to 14mm one instead of removing the HSC stack completely though, but that's my preference.
I mean something like this
Option C:
8x11x.1
8x14x.1
8x11x.1
Gold piston
I might be wrong though, I'm totally just guessing, I did find a setup that suits me myself second try that way though 🙃
Also, it's pretty unlikely I guess, but you might still have the rebound stack that covers the compression ports a little, adding unwanted high speed damping, upgrading that one to smaller diameter made a noticeable difference in my case, to the point where adding a HS shim where there were none still made a positive difference, as in giving less HS damping.
Clamp shim diameter is what sets the slope of the damping curve. In the cases above, option A changes the velocity stack clamp shim for an 11mm diameter to a 10mm diameter. This will make the damping curve slope shallower, meaning less HSC with a similar amount of LSC.

Your Option C would have very little damping coming from the velocity stack, and it would rely almost entirely on the IPA stack. This is because the 8x11x.1 face shim doesnt cover the ports at all, and the 8x14x.1 shim barely covers them as well. This will add very little damping to the overall curve, and what little it does add will be only at high shaft speeds since at low shaft speeds, the oil has a pretty large path to simply flow around the shim.

The option C stack above would also likely have a fairly bad knock in IPA1 and maybe IPA 2. There is to much room for oil to back flow as the shock switches from the compression stroke to the rebound stroke. This will slam the IPA shims closed to block the back flow, which is usually perceived by the rider as a knock.
 

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Your Option C would have very little damping coming from the velocity stack, and it would rely almost entirely on the IPA stack. This is because the 8x11x.1 face shim doesnt cover the ports at all, and the 8x14x.1 shim barely covers them as well. This will add very little damping to the overall curve, and what little it does add will be only at high shaft speeds since at low shaft speeds, the oil has a pretty large path to simply flow around the shim.
Yes that does make sense, the IPA knock shouldn't be any worse than with no velocity shims or 2 spacer shims between them and the psiton though ;) the 14mm velocity shim suits me personally (though no spacers between it and the piston)- I guess it has zero affect on low speed (there I use the IPA adjuster) little to none on mid-high speed and a little bit of an effect on really high speed, in reality it means I have as much low speed support as I desire at that moment, the wheel gets nicely out of the way from obstacles and it handles big hits really smoothly with no perceivable bottom out no matter how hard of a hit, I huck 1,5+m high pretty much to flat regurarly :p uses pretty much everything under 1m high hucks too, so I dont have any wasted/unused travel. I am a really lightweight person though, not sure how that affects the damper.
 

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Discussion Starter #179
Yes that does make sense, the IPA knock shouldn't be any worse than with no velocity shims or 2 spacer shims between them and the psiton though ;) the 14mm velocity shim suits me personally (though no spacers between it and the piston)- I guess it has zero affect on low speed (there I use the IPA adjuster) little to none on mid-high speed and a little bit of an effect on really high speed, in reality it means I have as much low speed support as I desire at that moment, the wheel gets nicely out of the way from obstacles and it handles big hits really smoothly with no perceivable bottom out no matter how hard of a hit, I huck 1,5+m high pretty much to flat regurarly :p uses pretty much everything under 1m high hucks too, so I dont have any wasted/unused travel. I am a really lightweight person though, not sure how that affects the damper.
Having the 14mm shim as a face shim will add quite a bit more damping across the board than if there was a gap shim under it allowing oil to flow without the 14 flexing. Relying on just the IPA stack is not really an issue, it just makes it hard to get proper damping. This is because the IPA stack does not rest on the piston ports, so there is a lot of shim surface are for oil to push against and open the stack. This tends to add a lot of low speed damping, but very little high speed damping because once there is enough force to push open the IPA stack, oil has a ton of room to flow.

There is a common misconception that harshness comes from too much compression damping. While that can be the case, its much more common for harshness to come from too little compression damping causing the wheel to overshoot, causing the shock(or fork) to slam into the more progressive part of the spring curve. This is especially true for air springs that tend to have quite a ramp up in the last 1/3 of their stroke. Under damped suspension can feel fine on big hits as they are a single large impact(and are actually pretty slow shaft speeds), but it tends to make the wheel feel busy and uncontrolled in long, rough sections of trail. A lot of this also comes down to how fast a rider is as well.

That said, there is nothing wrong with any set up, as long as the rider is happy with it. Its all preferences and its all about what makes each person feel comfortable on the trail.
 

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I personally have a really hard time telling what the rear suspension is doing, all I can tell is that I have good traction and this setup feels better than the stock one, but I'm unable to tell why. I'm certainly undersprung in the front though, single big hits the damper can handle, but when there are big hits and roots at the same time I just feel the bottom repeatedly.
 
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