[CaveGiant]

Hi All,

I was originally discussing the damper in the best damper thread.

However getting more detailed, so worth running at a seperate thread. Might be useful to others too.

Where we are at:
I'm riding an xl evolink 158, this puts tons of weight on the front of the bike.
I'm running 90psi main, 122 irt spring.

The terrain I ride is rocky/rooty, varying from steep to flat.

Front tyre is Dhr2 29x3.

I've spent a lot of time on the Shockcraft website. Fully recommend it for everyone. Great tuning tips!

The only mods I've made to the fork is remove the floating tpc+ stack (I'm not use enough travel as it is, don't need even more hsc). I'm also following Douglas's tip on using motorex 2.5wt. That stuff made a phenomenal difference!

So currently rebound full open, hsc full open.
Lsc is a discussion point, but 4-6 from open (counting from 1 as first click).

The challenge is to get the front of the bike high enough to be able to drop off fine (had real issues nose diving this bike), whilst still being plush enough to flow over roots/rocks.

I'm currently doing this weird ways E.g. Secondary chamber low pressure vs main. If I use the +50% rule then it is far to firm and uses too little travel. If I lower the main pressure then the front end is too hard to loft for drop offs.

I'm still playing with pressures, however spotted something potentially key for lsc.

I sessioned a rocky steppy section to get the lsc spot on. Got rocky steps 6 is really smooth. A couple of clicks more and it gets too stiff. A few clicks less and it's too deep in travel, firm and slow.

However if I run 6 for general riding then I'm losing speed over choppy non-steep terrain.

I want the fork to flow over stuff when not steep, but still provide support on the steeps. I've got a video of me on the steps to show how fork responds.

Is this a base stack too firm thing?

Help!

P. S. Sorry about typos, writing in car. I will clear it up later

 

[Dougal]

I've got a Dorado coming for tuning next week.

 

[CaveGiant]

What work are they having done?

 

[294037]

The only mods I've made to the fork is remove the floating tpc+ stack (I'm not use enough travel as it is, don't need even more hsc).

Using full travel isn't the only indicator for how much HSC you need, or any fork setting for that matter. It's just 1 indicator of many. It is entirely possible the the absolute best riding set up for your purposes will use even less travel than what you do now.

To give an example of this, my pike would easily use full travel with the stock air spring but since changing to a coil it almost never uses the last 15-20mm yet rides light years better

Point is, I would replace the TPC+ piston and experiment with a range of HSC settings and ignore travel use entirely. Just focus on the things you have pointed out you would like to improve

 

[Dougal]

What work are they having done?

Tuning. I'll be mapping out the whole damper, which was something I haven't had the time to do yet.

 

[CaveGiant]

Tuning. I'll be mapping out the whole damper, which was something I haven't had the time to do yet.

Sweet!

Would be very interested in your findings

 

[CaveGiant]

Using full travel isn't the only indicator for how much HSC you need, or any fork setting for that matter. It's just 1 indicator of many. It is entirely possible the the absolute best riding set up for your purposes will use even less travel than what you do now.

To give an example of this, my pike would easily use full travel with the stock air spring but since changing to a coil it almost never uses the last 15-20mm yet rides light years better

Point is, I would replace the TPC+ piston and experiment with a range of HSC settings and ignore travel use entirely. Just focus on the things you have pointed out you would like to improve

I'd fully agree that trying to use all travel is a bit of a daft way to set. However I'm wanting to use enough to allow the fork to move out of the way of obstacles so you don't lose speed.

So I'll stick the tpc stack back in. However while it's in pieces it'd be a good time for bottom stack mods.

So with LSC set to keep the fork light and supported for steep terrain it hooks up when flatter massively slowing me down.

We are only talking a few clicks difference.
However the difference isn't subtle riding.

 

[CaveGiant]

I've stripped the fork down and refitted the tpc+.
I've given the three stacks a look over.
The base compression stack looks exceptionally simple.
Only gave a quick look, but it looks like two full width shims, a few mid width and a supporting ring.
It looks like the spring preload will force the top shims to fold over the supporting ring.
The stacks on the tpc and mid stack are far more complicated.

Is there anything useful I can get you before that fork arrives Dougal that'd make your job easier? I've got micrometer and calipers at work if anything needs measuring.

 

[CaveGiant]

It's Monday night here. I'm off biking Friday.
So might see if there is anything I can tweak before then.

I was using the high 90 psi to loft the front wheel as this bike is ridiculously front heavy.

I'm going to drop back down to the recommendation for my weight of 82/122. I've moved the stem back to minimum and am going to machine an eccentric shim to give me a bit more to play with between 31.8mm stem and 22.2 bars.

I'm thinking that lightening the rebound stack might be a reasonable first step. The front of the bike is heavy and I've got rebound full open.

Does this make sense?

Thanks again

 

[Dougal]

I've stripped the fork down and refitted the tpc+.
I've given the three stacks a look over.
The base compression stack looks exceptionally simple.
Only gave a quick look, but it looks like two full width shims, a few mid width and a supporting ring.
It looks like the spring preload will force the top shims to fold over the supporting ring.
The stacks on the tpc and mid stack are far more complicated.

Is there anything useful I can get you before that fork arrives Dougal that'd make your job easier? I've got micrometer and calipers at work if anything needs measuring.

Looks like the job has arrived already. But I won't get to it today. We've got a short week (queens birthday holiday yesterday) combined with winter sickness so we're short staffed.

Might have something by Friday. I need to fit and test ride this one too.

 

[CaveGiant]

Found anything interesting yet?

 

[Dougal]

Found anything interesting yet?

No. I hope to make some progress today though.

 

[CaveGiant]

Just a passing thought.

The Dorado spring could be used as a travel adjuster if you put a custom air cap on that allows you to depress the core without releasing air.
If you want to pump, unscrew cap and pump as usual.

I was thinking of building something like this, anyone else made something?

 

[croakies]

Something like that would work but I have found when going down in travel you need to increase pressure anyways sooo you would need to connect a pump regardless.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Dougal]

Just a passing thought.

The Dorado spring could be used as a travel adjuster if you put a custom air cap on that allows you to depress the core without releasing air.
If you want to pump, unscrew cap and pump as usual.

I was thinking of building something like this, anyone else made something?

I think a German outfit did a travel adjust air-cap for the Mattoc like that. It may fit.

But personally I've never had the need to change travel mid-ride. I just suffer on the ups and enjoy the downs.

 

[Dougal]

Weather is still garbage.

But the maths and physics show there are gains to be made in the mid-valve and rebound. It'll take me a while to make up tooling and machine up the bits.

 

[CaveGiant]

Sounds interesting.
Anything I can try in the meantime?
I'm rebuilding the Dorado today as riding this weekend (a week behind schedule due to stomach flu).

 

[CaveGiant]

There are a, couple of rides in the alps which have a couple of hours UP on fire roads, I was thinking of stuff like that.

I've ordered an hvac core remover which I may be able to use, otherwise I'll Google the mattoc one, thanks.

 

[Dougal]

Sounds interesting.
Anything I can try in the meantime?
I'm rebuilding the Dorado today as riding this weekend (a week behind schedule due to stomach flu).

Nothing DIY at this stage. Rebound shims are close to a Fox size.

 

[CaveGiant]

I've rebuilt the fork this evening with the tpc+ stack.

Playing a bit of the bench with adjusters and moving the damper by hand.
That tpc stack adds a massive amount of damping and comes in quite quickly.

I had issues with over damping (I think) before hand. It's going to be interesting.

I'll leave the stack in for the moment.

Running the air pressure lower may help.


So as I can get it dialed for speed/steeps, but it then it responds too slowly on flatter trails where I'm trying to get speed up, am I right in thinking the lsc is fine, just hsc is too hard even full open?

Or is it a bit more complicated?

Have a good weekend,

CG