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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just saw it on Facebook. It will be interesting what happens to prices of the bike park pass. I'm not a skier but they already have a multi park pass available so one might assume one would be tabled up for biking. I see the price going up!
 

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If they're going to jack the prices up then I hope they build many more downhill MTB trails. Wouldn't it be amazing to have a mini Whistler here in SoCal?
 

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I think they should sell the snow making garb and keep them open for bikes year round.
They need to make a deal with the gas/electric companies.. so much potential around for more parks if they connect the dots
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
There is no comparison between the ski revenue and bike park revenue. One would argue of build and they will come but there are a lot more skiers/snowboarders than there are bikers. As for the cost of the season passes(Ski), they have always been up there and if you don't go at least 6 times, it isn't worth it.

My concern is Mammoth will have to cover any shortcomings in revenue from SoCal and the poor snow pack that we have been plagued with in recent years. June is already draining the bank and to add another marginally profitable at best resort, well, I hope they got a smokin' deal or rates will be heading north!

IMO, Mammoth needs to look at what Disney does. You can get a single park pass or a multi-park pass. Don't force things upon your customers. Now if they want to offer up both locations for the same old price of the past or slightly more, I would be interested.

Let's not kid ourselves though, this wasn't about biking which has very little impact on the overall bottom line of Mammoth. We just need to keep the fingers crossed that something good comes of this for the MTBR's.
 

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BM and PQ Trail Rep
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IMO, Mammoth needs to look at what Disney does. You can get a single park pass or a multi-park pass. Don't force things upon your customers. Now if they want to offer up both locations for the same old price of the past or slightly more, I would be interested.
This is exactly what needs to happen. The seasonal skier at Big Bear is not normally a skier at Mammoth. If you only offer one option, you are shutting out a lot of season pass holder wannabes.

While mountain biking make up a significant smaller amount of revenue, it is still profitable enough to run the lifts seven days a week in the summer and staff the park. They would be foolish not to capitalize on the market. Their biggest potential for growth is not in the skiing arena. Everybody who skis/boards knows there are only 5 major parks (Baldy and Mtn High included) in Socal. Very few skiers ever venture into XC. There is not a large, untapped customer base.

On the other hand, there are far more non-downhill mountain bikers that represent that untapped customer base. The only way I see that happening is a far larger marketing campaign coupled with far more down hill (crazy, family oriented, and everything in between) to create a true resort experience.

They need to figure out a way to incorporate Bear Mountain and sway the forest service to stop dragging their feet. It is amusing to me that a ski slope that has already been stripped of 80 percent of the natural environment is subject to such rigorous reviews.

Multiple people have projected the cost will go up at Snow Summit. I agree. The $35 lift fee is $10 less than Mammoth. My guess is you will see $40 lift tickets next year for the mountain bike community. I still won't complain. The 2.5 drive from San Diego makes a weekend trip far less taxing than the 7 hour Mammoth drive IF they continue to improve the riding there.
 

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IMO, Mammoth needs to look at what Disney does. You can get a single park pass or a multi-park pass. Don't force things upon your customers. Now if they want to offer up both locations for the same old price of the past or slightly more, I would be interested.
They are still offering BB only season passes. They'd be crazy not to as many people that ski/board the local resorts don't go up to Mammoth.


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If they're going to jack the prices up then I hope they build many more downhill MTB trails. Wouldn't it be amazing to have a MEGA Whistler here in SoCal?
ftfy.

the winter pass is $700 for all 4 resorts, early bird season passes to mammoth used to go for over $700 so this seems like a smoking deal. really interested to see whats going to happen to the bike park.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Big article in the OC Register this morning about this. Looks like Mammoth paid $37M for this deal. Interesting facts, 47% of Mammoth's revenue comes from ticket sales. The rest on tourism. Big Bear's average annual snowfall is only 100" and last year was a whopping 39". They mentioned the real opportunity was summer activities at BB which would lead you to believe more biking. The issue is the USFS. Any time big gov is involved, delays are the norm. They also got the golf course at BB in this deal but if you have ever played it, so what. The other interesting piece is they get 140 acres of property which could be the real reason why they jumped in on the deal. I assume some of it is the land the ski resorts are on but there is buildable real estate in this too. Time will tell. I just hope the bike pass doesn't go up another 10% like it did this past year.
 

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Trail Ninja
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I was thinking this deal might mean something more along the lines of global recognition, organizing venues that attract people from around the world. Look at all the press the Mammoth/Kamikaze games got. Big Bear has some history there, before that issue with the lawsuit. Legit DH racing would be welcome. Maybe some Enduro races too, even though Rim Nordic hosts some in that area. I'm not expecting too much in terms of new trails, maybe 1-3 new trails ready for summer each year.
 

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We're all excited about the sale up here, think it could only be better. The former owners, we feel, only did the bike park because they had too( the Usfs requires all ski areas to have year around use)
With Mammoth coming in and they're extensive knowledge related to mountain bikes, combined with the knowledge of SS and the community, it can only be better. I've already heard talk of expanding over to Bear Mtn as well of expansion on SS. With all the new trails being built and planned outside of SS, we could truly have a world class bike destination within 3 hours of 30 million people.
Everyone should take a "Wait and see" approach instead of trying to figure out the outcome.
 

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BM and PQ Trail Rep
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I am completely thrilled with the prospect of expansion. I had the kids at Mammoth this summer and they progressed to the point that 80% of the mountain was their playground. The only draw back to the experience was the daunting 7ish hour drive.

I rode SS for the first time this August. I was concerned initially since there was only 2 routes (with variances) down the mountain. While they could handle them, it would be at a leisurely pace and with all the traffic the routes see, it is just asking for trouble.

Now, with the though of expansion, I am hopeful we see lots of alternative lines down the mountain(s) to alleviate some of the traffic.
 

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rampant e-speculation is way more fun, i heard that mammoth will import tons of kitty litter to duplicate riding conditions at mammoth so they can leverage their marketing strategy of "we have the most challenging riding conditions in the world unless it rains, which it never does in southern california". Combine that with only allowing new housing construction of 1 bedroom A-frames in order to protect the "mom & pop" feel of BigBear City and i think we know what they're trying to do. Also, season's passes will feature a picture or either The Situation from Jersey Shore or Paris Hilton of Carl's Jr fame depending on preferred gender identification or LAGBT affiliation. They will limit season passes to only 25 per year, they will be free, winners will be determined from a karaoke challenge where everybody has to cover Smooth Criminal.
 

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Big Bear's average annual snowfall is only 100" and last year was a whopping 39".
They also have an enormous snowmaking operation, which probably puts down a sufficient amount for much of the target BB crowd I'd guess. I wouldn't be surprised if they did okay even in poor snow years.

My main worry is that Mammoth is financially levered up the wazoo, and already ran into problems when things got tough (i.e. closing June for a season to service their debt).
 

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Be happy Vail didnt buy Summit and Bear. The price increases for the Tahoe resorts they've bought were fairly substantial. But hey, my pass also works for Vail.

If Starwood can manage to link the two resorts together with trail systems I think that would be awesome. I've dreamt about that since the early 90's. I think there is some pretty decent terrain in between the two resorts.

If theres another winter like the last one, SoCal may get year round biking this winter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
My $.02 on skiing in BB, unless you can do it during the week, just too many people. Add in you pretty much have to like icy conditions for the most part. Now it has been many years since I ski'd there but I hated the weekend lift lines. Conversely, Mammoth wasn't near as bad but the drive from SoCal made it difficult for just a weekend. We did it but back when were young, it didn't matter, too much anyway. Trip up you were always excited, getting into the car to come home, not so much.

As to the biking, I certainly hope they keep things open longer at both Mammoth and BB. Can't believe Mammoth closed this past weekend when they could easily be running chair 2. I am betting that some bean counter said then when the gondola closes, it is pretty much the season pass holders from that day forward so their revenue on selling daily bike passes hits the skids. No new daily revenue to speak of. I remember a few years ago going to almost the end of October.

BB is certainly an improvement as to what it was a few years ago as far as biking. Down side it was like a train track. A few runs I recall about 10 of us or more in a line going down. Having only 2 really new trails, it needs to be expanded and hopefully Mammoth can help in dealing with the USFS if that was the only cause of not adding more trails this past year. I will say this, the food at the top of Summit was outstanding. Forgot the young guys name they brought in to manage it but the pulled pork sandwich was delish and huge! Couldn't even bike for a while after we ate.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Sucks I have to wait 10 months to go back up to Mammoth as I only bike there. Spending $2k for a weekend ski trip isn't worth it. Hope to get a run in at Summit before the DH bikes are hung up for the season.
 
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