[TriageNAM]

I was picking the brains of the local bike shop and I ended up mail order the parts.. I brought back my bike and the new parts to there shop and they told me labor to install the parts was double the norm labor rate... Why would the shop feel like i ripped them off so bad that they wanna charge me twice? They also made me feel like mail order parts from that day on i was on my own...& that they wouldnt even help me out? Im just confused about it?

 

[The SS Boz]

Go to another shop if you can....

I was picking the brains of the local bike shop and I ended up mail order the parts.. I brought back my bike and the new parts to there shop and they told me labor to install the parts was double the norm labor rate... Why would the shop feel like i ripped them off so bad that they wanna charge me twice? They also made me feel like mail order parts from that day on i was on my own...& that they wouldnt even help me out? Im just confused about it?[/QUOTE

Yeah i think everybody gets in this situation...but local shops cannot compete with big shop internet sites.....so they get mad....its pretty childish.........shops make more money off installs and repairs than bikes anyway......but increasing the charge is ridiculous....i had that problem for years......now i buy and install all my stuff myself........an the funny thing is my local shop who i club ride for, they know what i do and have had to get used to it and have quit acting irritated about it......i only buy lubes, cables and other random small pieces from my local shop now...or run the bike by there when i got a part i cant wrench out.......

If they are the only shop in your area then they know they can jam u with a higher price cause where else u gonna go.....if you can be nice and develop a relationship with folks at the shop and maybe they will ease up........otherwise tell them u want be doin business with them anymore and go to another shop

its unfortunate that this stuff happens but its usually an old school shop that is refusing to re-evaluate their operating budget and get with the times and sell or advertise on the net

-Boz

 

[Ken in KC]

Yen and Yang...

I was picking the brains of the local bike shop and I ended up mail order the parts.. I brought back my bike and the new parts to there shop and they told me labor to install the parts was double the norm labor rate... Why would the shop feel like i ripped them off so bad that they wanna charge me twice? They also made me feel like mail order parts from that day on i was on my own...& that they wouldnt even help me out? Im just confused about it?

Well, on one hand you did go to the LBS and spend their time on advice and took that knowledge online. On the other hand, their business system should be set up so that they're still generating revenue from their maintenance department.

So, while you took advantage of their knowledge (that knowledge and the associated overhead is why a LBS is typically more expensive than online), they're out of line to charge you more for installation.

Go to another store.

Ken

 

[screampint]

Shouldn't you be packing?

 

[mtnbiker1973]

I've never owned a bike shop, nor would I want to. I would be willing to wager a large sum that thier money maker is selling product(i.e. bikes, camping gear, what ever they carry), not labor they get for repair. It's perfectly acceptable what they've done. If you want that shop around long term, they gotta make money! How are they going to do that when you order your parts from the internet and have thier mechanic put that part on (and tune it) for 5 or 10 dollars? If i were in that position, I'd have *some* little way of making money when someone did that to me. That's why you gotta learn to wrench on your own stuff, or just pay the consequence.

 

[Ken in KC]

I'm a man, baby....

Shouldn't you be packing?

I won't be packing until tomorrow and I'll likely forget a bunch of stuff (underwear, etc)

Congratulations, BTW.

I'll see you soon, very soon. I seem to be having a hard time concentrating at work, for some reason.

Ken

 

[ewarnerusa]

when I pull a move like that, I try to save face with the bike shop and at least buy something. buy some lube, or a new bottle, at least something for their time. Of course the LBS might still be grumpy that you didn't buy the expensive stuff from them, but they can't claim that you're not supporting them if you make some regular purchases.

 

[tlg]

I was picking the brains of the local bike shop and I ended up mail order the parts.. I brought back my bike and the new parts to there shop and they told me labor to install the parts was double the norm labor rate... Why would the shop feel like i ripped them off so bad that they wanna charge me twice? They also made me feel like mail order parts from that day on i was on my own...& that they wouldnt even help me out? Im just confused about it?

Try doing the same with your car mechanic. Get his advice, then buy brake pads or a tire at Pep Boys and take it back to him. See what happens.

You should have been upfront. Told the LBS you can't afford to buy from them. That you would like to buy online, but still pay them the service to install the parts. I even think they have a legitimate right to charge you more. Twice as much? No, that's a bit steep. 15-20% may be more fair. Perhaps if you were upfront they would have.

 

[Jeff in CO]

Give them a chance next time to match what you have found online. I recently bought some X0 Derailleur and X0 shifters. I mentioned that Colorado Cyclist (nice they are here in the Springs) had the parts for way cheaper than they were offering. I told them I could also pick the items up that day and wondered if they could price match. They did not have the shifters in stock and would have to order them but I told them I was willing to wait and buy through them so long as they matched the price. After talking to the manager, they decided to honor it.

I did find out though, that mail order companies get to purchase their parts much lower than regular LBS. Basically two different price brackets. This shop is wanting to get their online branch moving so they decided to price match. Some shops have to pay more for the part than what Online stores are selling outright to the public. Interesting lesson.

Bottom line, I bought the bike there, so I wanted them to get the first shot at it.

 

[SLinBend]

--snip--

I did find out though, that mail order companies get to purchase their parts much lower than regular LBS. Basically two different price brackets. This shop is wanting to get their online branch moving so they decided to price match. Some shops have to pay more for the part than what Online stores are selling outright to the public. Interesting lesson.

Bottom line, I bought the bike there, so I wanted them to get the first shot at it.

This is true, but deserves a bit of clarification. Mail order companies receive a volume discount on product because they order in such high quantities. An LBS could get the same discount if they kept they ordered equivalent quantities, but they typically don't or can't afford to keep that much in stock.

 

[JohnnyTooBad]

This is true, but deserves a bit of clarification. Mail order companies receive a volume discount on product because they order in such high quantities. An LBS could get the same discount if they kept they ordered equivalent quantities, but they typically don't or can't afford to keep that much in stock.

All these LLBSs (Little LBSs) need to learn a bit more about business and get into buying groups so that they can compete with the volume discount outlets. It sucks that it won't be long before the number of LBSs is reduced to almost nothing, and their only customers will be the hapless suburbanites who don't know any better. Maybe it's time to start opening service-only shops that do installs and tuning of the parts you buy on-line. It'd be like Jiffy Lube for bikes.

 

[neveride]

You'd lose that bet and your sum of money

I've never owned a bike shop, nor would I want to. I would be willing to wager a large sum that thier money maker is selling product(i.e. bikes, camping gear, what ever they carry), not labor they get for repair.

I know of a couple of shops that stay in business ONLY because of their repair jobs and the labor they charge. And I'm talking about shops that are not overcharging by any means, and in fact I've seen one regularly under charge (the owner is the kind of guy who's a bit of a pushover, the more a customer asks for a discount the bigger the discount).

As a former service manager for a pretty large shop that had a huge repair business, I know that we made a much higher profit on labor and repairs, again without overcharging, than we did on anything else we sold.

Factor in that the typical shop rat (one qualified enough to do repairs more difficult than fixing a flat) makes 6 to 10 bucks an hour. Granted, there is the cost of purchasing tools, and some get expensive (head tube reamer, for example), but most have a really long life and pay for themselves in the first year.

Of course, a good shop sells service the way they sell a product, and a really good shop sells necessary service, and not just something to make money that the customer doesn't need. Selling unnecessary service is an easy way to make a quick profit but doesn't do much for keeping customers long term.

How a good shop handles the OP's situation is this: if they buy the product from the shop, tell them the normal labor charge, then tell them they get a discount off this. If they buy the products somewhere else, you simply charge them the original quoted labor price. The shop is still making money off the installation, and the customer doesn't get justifiably disgruntled. This also gives a bargaining chip for the shop: I used to tell customers that I could probably come close to or match the internet/mo price, but then I couldn't discount the labor. Most understood this, and its a happy medium and helps build shop loyalty.

Shops should also have labor charges and typical service charges (flats, various installations, tune ups, etc) posted in a conspicuous place. This way a customer knows they're getting the regular price and not some jacked up price. I recall quoting customers and even giving them a written quote (which we kept a copy of) having them approve it, and then when they came to pick up a repair and pay telling me this isn't the price I quoted them. But with posted prices, I could simply point to the board and say, hey, if you don't believe this written estimated on the repair tag which you were also given a copy of (and now claiming you never saw, but you don't say that to the customer), our prices are clearly posted.

 

[The SS Boz]

I dont know about this...

This is true, but deserves a bit of clarification. Mail order companies receive a volume discount on product because they order in such high quantities. An LBS could get the same discount if they kept they ordered equivalent quantities, but they typically don't or can't afford to keep that much in stock.

I am not sure here but there is no way (coming from a recent search for a buddy) that Cambria or speedgoat have every frame size and every color available in stock of santa cruz bicycles..........i mean u search their site and u find every one available........and yet some sites like jenson will give stock status on there site of most items..........i believe maybe certain "universal" or big seller items are kept in stock and the shops given volume discounts but when it comes to other items such as the frame example i gave, what then..........i guarantee they order next day from the dealer-then ship out to consumer , so are they getting volume discount for ordering 1 at a time on a regular basis.....???

Soooo it brings me back to my first point in regards to sellers on the net......you get your shop out there increasing exposure....make online sales available.........develop an online base....then your LBS gets big volume discounts as well.....

Wellllll at least thats my business plan for my LBS....=)

-Boz

 

[Ken in KC]

Typically with larger contracts...

I am not sure here but there is no way (coming from a recent search for a buddy) that Cambria or speedgoat have every frame size and every color available in stock of santa cruz bicycles..........i mean u search their site and u find every one available........and yet some sites like jenson will give stock status on there site of most items..........i believe maybe certain "universal" or big seller items are kept in stock and the shops given volume discounts but when it comes to other items such as the frame example i gave, what then..........i guarantee they order next day from the dealer-then ship out to consumer , so are they getting volume discount for ordering 1 at a time on a regular basis.....???

Soooo it brings me back to my first point in regards to sellers on the net......you get your shop out there increasing exposure....make online sales available.........develop an online base....then your LBS gets big volume discounts as well.....

Wellllll at least thats my business plan for my LBS....=)

-Boz

Larger contracts (Santa Cruz in your example) will be written to assure a specific amount of sales annually. So each sale is credited toward that contract.

Your contention that online sales is the way to go is a little simplistic for a LBS. Web site development and web retail is expensive and they would have to compete with existing online retailers while carrying some prohibitive inventory costs. Develop an online base, huh? That should be easy.....

Ken

 

[Go Kart Motzart]

This is true, but deserves a bit of clarification. Mail order companies receive a volume discount on product because they order in such high quantities. An LBS could get the same discount if they kept they ordered equivalent quantities, but they typically don't or can't afford to keep that much in stock.

Nope. The bike shops don't buy from Shimano, nor do the mailorder companies. There is a middle man (wholesalers like Quality, J&B, Hawley, etc.) that the bike shops buy through. The mail order co are supposed to play this way too, but they don't. They "piggy back" their Shimano goods with bicycle companies (sometimes their own) that can buy straight from Shimano.

Shimano has done an ok job at trying to fix this problem. You won't see the huge descrepencies in LBS vs. mail order Shimano prices that you did a few years ago.

 

[Johnny Hair Boy]

Live and learn

I was picking the brains of the local bike shop and I ended up mail order the parts.. I brought back my bike and the new parts to there shop and they told me labor to install the parts was double the norm labor rate... Why would the shop feel like i ripped them off so bad that they wanna charge me twice? They also made me feel like mail order parts from that day on i was on my own...& that they wouldnt even help me out? Im just confused about it?

If you can't wrench your own bike then don't mail order parts. And don't forget our sport can survive easily without mail order but it can't survive at all without LBS's get with the program people and find a good LBS and suport now it or you will regret it when there gone. For the record I don't work at a shop and do all my own wrenching but never buy any thing on line and always suport my favorite LBS.

 

[GearHead]

I would have to agree with Johnny. I do 100% of my own wrenching, but I buy everything I can from my LBS's. The only stuff I buy online are products which are not available through Canadian distributors. When you become a regular with a bike shop, you should receive discounts on stuff you buy from them that will be as cheap as any mail order company. The experience the LBS has is invalueable to the sport, product knowledge, service knowledge, where the good trails are, or people to ride with.

 

[Go Kart Motzart]

I was picking the brains of the local bike shop and I ended up mail order the parts.. I brought back my bike and the new parts to there shop and they told me labor to install the parts was double the norm labor rate... Why would the shop feel like i ripped them off so bad that they wanna charge me twice? They also made me feel like mail order parts from that day on i was on my own...& that they wouldnt even help me out? Im just confused about it?

Oopps. I forgot to respond to this a$$hat TriageNAM's "staged" post (look up his previous posts, he works at a bike shop).

I would never go into a shop, use their knowledge and then go home and mail order the products. I do everything possible to do business with my LBS. They take great care of me and I always get outstanding service. Biking is my passion, so I don't mind spending a few extra bucks when it's going to fellow riders who help promote the sport.

 

[mtb_biker]

If you can't wrench your own bike then don't mail order parts. And don't forget our sport can survive easily without mail order but it can't survive at all without LBS's get with the program people and find a good LBS and suport now it or you will regret it when there gone. For the record I don't work at a shop and do all my own wrenching but never buy any thing on line and always suport my favorite LBS.

I agree partly with what is said here in that the sport can't last without the LBS. When I get new people interested in biking, I do point them to the LBS. I too get discounts at my LBS and other connections/sponsors, but i can recieve most parts faster mail order.

From the LBS I buy parts that i either need right away or if its a smaller part <$30 and is comparable in price. If i need bigger parts I do give them a chance to get me their "best price" and they know I won't buy from them if its too high. You need to establish rapport with a shop before expecting to get good deals like was mentioned above.

I do however agree that its not fair to "use" the bike shop for their expertiese then go online and order what you need. While it may not seem fair for them to charge you more for installation, they are free to charge what they want... If you were more honest with your intentions i'm sure the salesperson would've been more accetping and possibly would've helped that other customer more in the store than you since you were just using them essentially.

If you want to buy online, don't abuse the LBS's knowledge. If you've ever called Performance/Nashbar/etc you know the calibur of knowledge they posess...

Its kind of like biting the hand that feeds you (esp. in your case since)

 

[TriageNAM]

Well actually is was stage, but the facts are real... and for the same people who ask to test ride a bike and go dirtjumping in for an hour, then lie about the price at supergo to get a discount on the bike.. they waist me time and steal little bits of my income.

Motive : See what the general attitude of the mail order community is.

Im happy to see your all not my worst customers, but for some of the post i read, I wouldnt wanna see some of them come in the door.

Anyway thanks for the feed back on the actual real life everyday thing I deal with.

Had you not called me an A$$Hat i would thank you too... But im not <Punk>

Im looking for the future of what is to be, Thanks for the comments this will definitly weigh in our LBS as far as setting policies when dealing with mail order people... and labor prices charges, and yes i charge double, Most of the customers wanna bring in a frame and have the part installed rite then. Thats a premimium service and a premimum price should be paid.. every one else has to wait, why shouldnt they too unless they are will to wait like every one else.. not cuz there mail order....

I pay your livings by eating where you work Doctors Dentists Cops Teachers Retailers Public Workers you name it ,,, wheres my mail order doctor at? Wheres my discount PHP programmer for this mail order site i need? oh I would be paying full price for your time. And I would for good work!
I leave tips, should I not? Im not the bad guy here.. Its like half of you inviting me on a ride then wanting a tune up once were out there.. Its happened... Yah it doesnt hurt me to tweak a few things help you out..(no biggy) Ive earned the respect I deserve through riding and thats what im really noted for, My riding buds are 100% on top of there wrenches.so there a no pressure group to ride with. I had years I gone through $7000.00 in parts alone. I bet you most of you wouldnt spend that on your job to have actually owned what your selling..

And before you reply just know,, for the customers that ask for a good pricing they do get it, Good customers recieve way more labor ( for free ), and i personally feel its my job to get you to the happy side of your riding experience while making a living doing it.

Thanks agian for the feed back.