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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
First of all; long time reader, first time poster!

Been riding for a while now, and looking at some "all-mountain" rigs to get me through the trails here is Aus. I currently riding a 2006 Morewood Shova St, and looking to upgrade to a 2010/2011 frame. I've got about $2500 to spend on a frame (keep in mind Ausd).

Eithe looking at a 5.5" (max) frame that pedals very well, or a shorter travel bike that rides pretty well. I'll be running at 2011 Fox 32 talas 140mm fork. I ride mostly 20 loops...so I need a good climber.

Choices are;

Pivot Mach 5.7 - might be a bit of overkill with 5.7" for Aus
Orange 5 - Single pivot stepping back in time?
Giant Trance - Every man and his dog has one
Santa Cruz Nickel - New to the market, few reviews. Heavy frame.
Kolly Endorphin - Designed around a 160mm fork (too much)

Any suggestions would be greaty appreciated!

Here's a shot of my current rig.
 

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Although I'm a slightly biased source, living a few miles from the factory, I really like Orange bikes.

BUT

Before making any kind of decision for/against the Five, get a ride on one, preferrably a long one (hour plus).
The geo of a Five is very low and slack, with a 140 fork it comes out 2+degrees slacker than any of those bike save the Endo, which is only 1deg steeper than a Five.

The feel is very much like a small downhill bike, the only frame that comes out similar is Banshee's Spitfire*. Climbing is fine, but without a ride it's hard to say if you would get on with such an aggressive frame.

RE: Choosing bikes based on suspension type, don' do it!

The whole single pivot/four bar debate is marketing bollocks. The most important bit of a suspension system is the shock, bad shock, bad ride. After that the difference is geometry, the actual linkage (or lack of) is a tiny detail. Even the infamous brake jack is mostly about the relationship between the main/virtual pivot and chain growth, also, that four bar bikes don't suffer from it is a myth.

*Look very hard at the Spit as well your other choices, Banshee are great guys making great frames.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Fix the Spade said:
Although I'm a slightly biased source, living a few miles from the factory, I really like Orange bikes.

BUT

Before making any kind of decision for/against the Five, get a ride on one, preferrably a long one (hour plus).
The geo of a Five is very low and slack, with a 140 fork it comes out 2+degrees slacker than any of those bike save the Endo, which is only 1deg steeper than a Five.

The feel is very much like a small downhill bike, the only frame that comes out similar is Banshee's Spitfire*. Climbing is fine, but without a ride it's hard to say if you would get on with such an aggressive frame.

RE: Choosing bikes based on suspension type, don' do it!

The whole single pivot/four bar debate is marketing bollocks. The most important bit of a suspension system is the shock, bad shock, bad ride. After that the difference is geometry, the actual linkage (or lack of) is a tiny detail. Even the infamous brake jack is mostly about the relationship between the main/virtual pivot and chain growth, also, that four bar bikes don't suffer from it is a myth.

*Look very hard at the Spit as well your other choices, Banshee are great guys making great frames.
Orange bikes are incredibly hard to find in Aus, and a test ride will be even harder. Yes, I agree with the shock is important fact, but I think with the same shock across a range of bikes, the linkage becomes pretty critical!

regarding the Spitfire, I had a look but it's designed around a 160mm fork I believe...I'm curious as to how a 140mm would sit ie/ head angle and climbing capabilities.

Is there a US online that anyone can reccomed that stocks Orange bikes? (thinking for buying from over there)

EDIT: Also does anyone know for sure if the Large Spitfire frame comes with waterbottle mounts?
 

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If your thinking about an orange 5, then maybe you should consider this bike .The Chumba VF2. Angles are similar, but it`s lighter. I have ridden a few orange 5`s on our trails and liked this better.
 

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I'd say Blur lt carbon, or mach 429, or the best yet SC Tallboy 29er. If you are looking at a max 140 fork than a high weight AM is not what you need. Get something light and a blast to ride. TB frames are 2400 ish and will be one of the funnest bikes you'll ever ride///:) However I am biased as I own one:p
 

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Five Miles Out said:
Orange bikes are incredibly hard to find in Aus, and a test ride will be even harder. Yes, I agree with the shock is important fact, but I think with the same shock across a range of bikes, the linkage becomes pretty critical!

regarding the Spitfire, I had a look but it's designed around a 160mm fork I believe...I'm curious as to how a 140mm would sit ie/ head angle and climbing capabilities.

Is there a US online that anyone can reccomed that stocks Orange bikes? (thinking for buying from over there)

EDIT: Also does anyone know for sure if the Large Spitfire frame comes with waterbottle mounts?
The spitfire isn't really designed around any length of fork.

On their geometry they list geometries for 130mm forks to 160mm with both zero stack and traditional headsets:

 

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you should really look some more at the 5.7, although sounds like you could get a mach 5 and be happy, pivots are great bikes, the linkage design really does make a difference
 

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A Trance X paired with a 140 mm. fork is spot on. And with a Talas, in the lowest position, you get a great climbing geo, 70º HT if I'm not wrong.
 

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Think again about the Endorphin, it is a stellar bike.:thumbsup:

I just got me and my girlfriend new Knolly Endorphins, and they are great. I have a 160mm Talas, and it works excellent. It slices corners like it is on rails. This is the slackest bike I have had, and it works great. It floats and tracks through sand like a 29er, but turns way better.

If you don't want as beefy of a fork, put on a 32 Talas at 150mm. I went for the beefier fork because we ride a lot of rocky chunk, but just like the Motolite we had before this bike, the Endorphin can be built a little lighter, or a little heavier depending on your terrain and riding style. It pedals like a XC bike, and handles rocky stuff like a very plush AM bike.

The rear suspension is plush, gets excellent traction, and seems bottomless. The frame handles great, going exactly where you point it, and steady as can be when you point it into nasty stuff. Way better than the Motolite. The slack angles really work with this bike. The seat tube is not as slack as it looks, it is more like 72-73 degreess actual.
 

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Realistically, the only way to decide is to try and get a demo of what you can and decide for yourself. I`m sure the IBIS and Yeti team will be along shorlty with the same story as the rest of us.

Everyone has their own opinions, and reading mags for the "best" doesn`t really cut it. The setup of the bike has as much importance, as the frame itself.

At least you know where to start with 140mm travel options.

Good luck with that :)
 

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Five Miles Out said:
Orange bikes are incredibly hard to find in Aus, and a test ride will be even harder. Yes, I agree with the shock is important fact, but I think with the same shock across a range of bikes, the linkage becomes pretty critical!

regarding the Spitfire, I had a look but it's designed around a 160mm fork I believe...I'm curious as to how a 140mm would sit ie/ head angle and climbing capabilities.

Is there a US online that anyone can reccomed that stocks Orange bikes? (thinking for buying from over there)

EDIT: Also does anyone know for sure if the Large Spitfire frame comes with waterbottle mounts?
Unreal cycles carries orange. I ride a spitfire with a 160mm van 36 fit. I really like this bike. It climbs really well for a bike that has a 160mm fork. It's a very versatile bike and there are a lot of people that run a 150mm fork on it that say it climbs amazing, not sure about running a 140 with it though. Of the other bikes you listed I'd end up with either the trance or the pivot, depending on what fit better.

If your budget is $2500 and you decide to go with a spitfire, you can get a revelation ti dual air and still be well under your budget as alot of places are selling those forks for around 630.00.
 

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Like someone said we all have our opinions, which are usually in favor of the bike we have. To really decide the bike you want, you need to go ride as many as you can, narrow your choices down to one or two, and then ask us what expiriences we have had with the bike you want to get.

(I think you should get a Felt Compulsion, personally, but thats just my .02 cents)
 

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I have a Butcher which is pretty much a 6" version of the Nickel. While I'm sure the Nickel is a great bike, I would take a long hard look at the Banshee Spitfire.
 

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Seems like the spitfire is a popular choice. I can get a trance super cheap through where I work..anyone chucked on a 140mm fork in a 2011 trance?
 

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I haven't gotten any trail time on my Spitfire yet, but I am running it with a 150mm Revelation and a Zero Stack headset which puts the geometry right in line with a 140mm fork with a traditional bottom cup. From my urban jaunts in steep geometry mode, it felt very playful and surprisingly nimble handling wise. I was really worried coming from a 71º head angle XC bike that the 66/67ish head angles would feel slow and lethargic. Not the case at all. Again, this is from my limited riding. Hitting Moab next week, but I thought I would just share my thoughts.

I was tempted by the Trance X and Pivot 5.7 as well. Any way you go, they all seem to be great choices.
 

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I ride a Mach 5 and it's a very nice bike. I was going to replace it with a Mach 5.7. The only other bike on your original list I'd consider is the Knolly, but I'd like to test one first as comparisons between pedalling performance of the Pivots and Knollys seem very mixed.

For value you can't go past the Trance, and I'm very interested to find out where you're getting a Mach 5.7 for $2500?

I've had a very brief test of the Spitfire but it was enough to tell me I didn't like way it rode and the manufacturing quality of the frame didn't come near the Giant and nowhere near the Mach 5. The other bike I considered when I bought my Mach 5 was the SC Blur LT2. I owned a Nomad and sold it for a Firebird before I bought the Mach 5 and the better pedalling performance of the Firebird was enough to convince me to go for the Mach 5 instead of the BLT2.
 

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Regarding the fork for the endorphin. If I remember correctly Noel stated that the bike was originally designed around a 140mm fork with a viable range from 125mm to 160mm.

For reference I ride a Large Delirium with a 170mm fork for my one ride. I also live in the flat part of Ontario. I have no problem using the even slacker 36 lb delirium on everything from "epic" xc rides to full on lift assist.

You should really consider the Endo - ride it to make your decision.

michael
 

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First off, to everyone posting that he should buy a 29er, he stated that he wanted to swap parts, just replace the frame. Secondly, I agree with previous opinions that all the reading and opinions in the world are no substitute for a test ride. I'm pretty sure there is an Over the Edge Sports down under that rents Ibis and Pivot (Their Utah location does) also I would try to ride a Turner 5 Spot, all DW Link 140 mm bikes.
 
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