well, as long as all the carbon and ti is going to a good cause...
M2 racer quits
news from http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-3057545.htmlThe Official announcement:
In the past few weeks, M2RACER's supply of high modulus prepreg carbon
fiber has been shut off due to the heavy worldwide military and aerospace
use. Carbon fiber is used in nearly 50% of the M2RACER product lineup. In
addition, the price of titanium and exotic aluminum alloys that we use has
nearly tripled in the past 18 months. Due to the unavailability of carbon
fiber and excessive material cost increases, M2RACER can no longer be able
to provide our valued customers with lightweight, high performance, and
well priced cycling components.
M2RACER truly appreciates the enthusiastic support we have received from
our distributors, dealers, and customers.
M2RACER will close its doors permanently at the end of June 2006. Until
then, we will continue to service our customers with our very limited
inventory.
Thank you all for your patronage and the privilege of having worked with you.
seems to me like the war is seriously affecting the industry. a local machine shop in my area can't even get enough 5/8" 7075 plates because this particular size is in short supply since the war.
not to mention titanium.
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Their wedsite has many out of stock items but It didn't say anything about shutting down. I wonder if the problem is getting the materials in the US? I hope this does not start affecting all the manufacturers in the biking industry. :eekster:
well...
if that's the real reason remains unknown.
another reason might be the problems that their headset caused on many, many carbon forks of customers now looking for warranty or replacement. might be a cheap way to get out of this problems....
if that's the real reason remains unknown.
another reason might be the problems that their headset caused on many, many carbon forks of customers now looking for warranty or replacement. might be a cheap way to get out of this problems....
The airbus a380 or whatever it's called is using up a lot of the world's carbon. The whole fueselage is a giant carbon tube... You could probably build a thousand bike frames from the carbon used in one plane (no facts to back that up, just my guess).
BM
BM
No, CF prices are going through the roof...
due to the AeroBus and other AeroSpace tech taking up all the carbon.
There is NOT enough factoires in China or Asia to keep up with demand.
2-3 new factories are coming on-line in the next 2-4 yrs, but the CF industry will be too far behind by then. Even the likes of TREK is going to have CF issues as well as every other comapny that uses CF. Hell even Goodyear is using CF in thier tires now!
Might be a reason why cannondale newest CF bike has an Aluminum rear.
CF prices from every single company are expected to raise prices in the next few weeks to months.
As result, Ti and aluminum prices are going up due to CF issues. This is going to hurt the bike industry big time. I would stock up on CF parts now or get that new CF or aluminum frame you always wanted before prices go up.
M2 racer will not be the last small CF company to bite the dust in the next few months or year. let's see what happens to other small companies like Lightweight and AX-Lightness.
due to the AeroBus and other AeroSpace tech taking up all the carbon.
There is NOT enough factoires in China or Asia to keep up with demand.
2-3 new factories are coming on-line in the next 2-4 yrs, but the CF industry will be too far behind by then. Even the likes of TREK is going to have CF issues as well as every other comapny that uses CF. Hell even Goodyear is using CF in thier tires now!
Might be a reason why cannondale newest CF bike has an Aluminum rear.
CF prices from every single company are expected to raise prices in the next few weeks to months.
As result, Ti and aluminum prices are going up due to CF issues. This is going to hurt the bike industry big time. I would stock up on CF parts now or get that new CF or aluminum frame you always wanted before prices go up.
M2 racer will not be the last small CF company to bite the dust in the next few months or year. let's see what happens to other small companies like Lightweight and AX-Lightness.
The A380 doesn't use carbon in the main fuselage structure. The Boeing 787 will use carbon fuselage and wings.
The current war in the mideast is not having a substantial affect on carbon supplies either.
The current carbon shortage has been looming for 5 years or so and is due to increased aerospace demand worldwide. Both military and commercial.
The current war in the mideast is not having a substantial affect on carbon supplies either.
The current carbon shortage has been looming for 5 years or so and is due to increased aerospace demand worldwide. Both military and commercial.
I got his letter too while on vacation. So sad. Victor was GREAT to work with.
Correct. the war is not affecting CF. But other alloys are affected by it.
The CF problem was brewing for years. FSA rasied thier prices last year to offset the future rising, but I am afraid it won't be enough.
I wonder how Motor Sports like F1 and Indy/Camp cars will be affected.
The CF problem was brewing for years. FSA rasied thier prices last year to offset the future rising, but I am afraid it won't be enough.
I wonder how Motor Sports like F1 and Indy/Camp cars will be affected.
Hmmm.....? I wonder where I can buy some stock in the CF market? When I make my millions I'll buy you all a new CF frame of your choice.:thumbsup:
I don't buy that at all. There are more and more companies making more and more carbon bikes. Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.
Cannondale? Cannondale won't let go of their aluminum. It's their heritage. That is why they don't have a full carbon race bike. Why? Who knows. Seems like they do everything backwards. Wouldn't a carbon rear triangle do more to dull resonance? They keep switching things around on the six13. FWIW, I own a Cannondale road bike. Aluminum frame.
Cannondale? Cannondale won't let go of their aluminum. It's their heritage. That is why they don't have a full carbon race bike. Why? Who knows. Seems like they do everything backwards. Wouldn't a carbon rear triangle do more to dull resonance? They keep switching things around on the six13. FWIW, I own a Cannondale road bike. Aluminum frame.
Sorry, it's a KNOWN FACT that there is a carbon shortage.
Try calling taiwan or china yourself. We are talking about High-Modulus carbon. Their are diffrnt grades of carbon. Alos form what I know Taiwanese crabon is better than some of the cheaper Chinese carbon. But China is now producing more and better high quality carbon.
Try calling taiwan or china yourself. We are talking about High-Modulus carbon. Their are diffrnt grades of carbon. Alos form what I know Taiwanese crabon is better than some of the cheaper Chinese carbon. But China is now producing more and better high quality carbon.
I don't doubt that there is a shortage of carbon, but I don't see other manufacturers closing up shop or pushing some other material due to the shortage. Last time I was at the LBS, there were still plenty of carbon items being shipped in.DIRT BOY said:Sorry, it's a KNOWN FACT that there is a carbon shortage.
Try calling taiwan or china yourself. We are talking about High-Modulus carbon. Their are diffrnt grades of carbon. Alos form what I know Taiwanese crabon is better than some of the cheaper Chinese carbon. But China is now producing more and better high quality carbon.
A friend of mine who I'm probably going to work for in the next few months is starting a small carbon company. There are many differnt grades and weaves of carbon. I don't even know that much about it, but as for his future business, he's using a cheaper carbon since his parts are mostly cosmetic for the boating industry, to replace billet accessories (they're so 90's). The ironic part is, carbon automaticlly demands a higher price from the consumer since it's CF, but billet parts can cost more to make. Lots of machine time, and you have SO much wasted material that all ends up in your chip bin.
BM
BM
Due some research beforte talking out your backside.. I just saw a whole big article last week about this. I can't remeber where right now.
Smaller comapnies are having issues with high quality carbon. It's a fact by 2007 most CF factores again will be at capacity until even more companies come on-line. The facotires cannot keep up with demand for CF, and the bigger comapnies who get first shot at it are wanting more. It's the raw matreials also that is gettign harder.
It's not that CF is not possible to get. Bigger comapnies get bigger allotments. They are getting more and more leaving very little for smaller comapnies. Then the price is going through the roof on CF.
Big companies Like TREK, Specilazied, the makeres for FSA and other CF parts, they will keep getting it, but prices will increase big time.
read more here about it:
http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=677&sid=d31bf33b8a669448ea46644396e4bb03
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17877&sid=b70d74ed097ed38be9bbfed7533e69e9
Due som research. It's a FACT in the idustry that it very hard to get more and more CF if you are not one of the big boys. watch those prices on the parts you see coming in everyday keep going up and up and up this year and next!
Smaller comapnies are having issues with high quality carbon. It's a fact by 2007 most CF factores again will be at capacity until even more companies come on-line. The facotires cannot keep up with demand for CF, and the bigger comapnies who get first shot at it are wanting more. It's the raw matreials also that is gettign harder.
It's not that CF is not possible to get. Bigger comapnies get bigger allotments. They are getting more and more leaving very little for smaller comapnies. Then the price is going through the roof on CF.
Big companies Like TREK, Specilazied, the makeres for FSA and other CF parts, they will keep getting it, but prices will increase big time.
read more here about it:
http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=677&sid=d31bf33b8a669448ea46644396e4bb03
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17877&sid=b70d74ed097ed38be9bbfed7533e69e9
Due som research. It's a FACT in the idustry that it very hard to get more and more CF if you are not one of the big boys. watch those prices on the parts you see coming in everyday keep going up and up and up this year and next!
Amoeba's prices on their alloy core/carbon wrapped riser bars for example jumped between the time the distributors printed their booking season catalogs last fall, and they started receiving inventory during the winter. I ordered a couple bars in the fall, the price at the time was $22cdn wholesale per bar. When the bar's arrived... the wholesale had gone up to $44cdn per bar.DIRT BOY said:CF prices from every single company are expected to raise prices in the next few weeks to months.
Not a pleasant price change.
Amoeba sells more carbon parts to a single international distributor than M2 Racer in their entire worldwide production run. Consequently big companies like Amoeba, Easton, Giant, etc get their orders filled because they're more important customers, and small brands get left with nothing.mtbfool said:I don't doubt that there is a shortage of carbon, but I don't see other manufacturers closing up shop or pushing some other material due to the shortage. Last time I was at the LBS, there were still plenty of carbon items being shipped in.
I read about it in Bicycle Retailer News or some junk like that. And I googled the Airbus, big chunks of the fueselage, at least at the time the articles were written, stated that large portions are indeed made from CF, and plastic. If I recall right, the article in that issue of Bicycle Retailer, they even blamed companies like Airbus for the carbon shortage. Eventaully, carbon production will hopefully catch up with the demand and prices will stabilize.
BM
BM
Actually the A380 fuselage isn't made from carbon fiber so much as a new material called Glare which is a composite of aluminium and kevlar. CF wouldn't be possible for fuselage because of the volume of oven that'd be required to cure it. I watched a documentary on the A-380's construction and the rotate the whole fuselage sections on a rotiserie around the kevlar and aluminium wire winding machine. The wings on the other hand.. that might be made from CF. The Boeing 777 uses CF for its wings.
Here's some quote from the airbus website regarding the A380:
"Several suppliers and Airbus plants contributed to the assembly of the sub-section. Airbus’ Nordenham plant in Germany provided the three fuselage shells, Dutch supplier Fokker provided the GLARE skin material for the panels, while the cross beams of the upper floor grid were produced in Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) by Japanese supplier Jamco."
"Airbus’ Stade facility specialises in the design and production of carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP) components and the rear pressure bulkhead was produced using resin film infusion moulding techniques. Once the component was moulded into the correct shape, its edge was carefully milled prior to the attachment of titanium tabs that hold the component to the aluminium fuselage. The tabs will be attached at Hamburg before the rear pressure bulkhead is joined to the fuselage. "
Anyway, it's not the same carbon composite stuff we're used to, so it seems, but CF reinforced plastic. That's probalby how the get around needing a giant oven to cure the epoxy resin junk in normal CF composites. They still consume CF.
BM
"Several suppliers and Airbus plants contributed to the assembly of the sub-section. Airbus’ Nordenham plant in Germany provided the three fuselage shells, Dutch supplier Fokker provided the GLARE skin material for the panels, while the cross beams of the upper floor grid were produced in Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) by Japanese supplier Jamco."
"Airbus’ Stade facility specialises in the design and production of carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP) components and the rear pressure bulkhead was produced using resin film infusion moulding techniques. Once the component was moulded into the correct shape, its edge was carefully milled prior to the attachment of titanium tabs that hold the component to the aluminium fuselage. The tabs will be attached at Hamburg before the rear pressure bulkhead is joined to the fuselage. "
Anyway, it's not the same carbon composite stuff we're used to, so it seems, but CF reinforced plastic. That's probalby how the get around needing a giant oven to cure the epoxy resin junk in normal CF composites. They still consume CF.
BM
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