[daway]

I currently have a 2007 Lyrik coil U-turn on my Intense SS. I've been looking for something a bit stiffer and with more travel, and I found someone that is willing to trade me for a 2007 Marzocchi 66 SL1 ATA (140-180mm).

The guy seems like a straight up guy and we would be meeting to do the trade in person, so I am not worried at all about getting screwed. He says he removed the PAR chamber (the bottom out compression adjuster that had the problem with leaking), and the fork has an updated ATA assembly so there are no wind down issues or anything. He says all adjustments work well. Is there anything else I should worry about with the 66 besides the wind down issues?

I tried searching for some information about the PAR chamber, and all I could find was conflicting information about how some people ran zero PSI while others run 30psi more in the PAR chamber than the main chamber. I was wondering if anyone with the fork has removed the PAR chamber and how this affects the fork?

Travel adjust is pretty important for me, I use it a lot to change the head angle of my bike, but on the SS the Lyrik's 115mm is just too low, I never drop the fork lower than 135mm. The added ability of going up to 180mm is a big plus for me.

Should I do the trade?

 

[Gemini2k05]

2007 66's are mint. Take that. No other real issues to worry about. Got like 2 years of hammering on mine now. A few buddies with the same. Definitely better than the lyric.

 

[Jim311]

Lyrik coil without a doubt. Screw Marz's ATA system.

 

[daway]

Lyrik coil without a doubt. Screw Marz's ATA system.

Have you had problems with the ATA system before? The ATA has been updated to the newer (2009 I believe) ATA assembly without wind down issues, and the ATA is no more finicky/difficult to adjust than the U-turn. As long as it works without winding down I am fine.

Anyone else have problems with the ATA system after they've sent their fork back into Marz?

 

[Nick_M2R]

Have you had problems with the ATA system before? The ATA has been updated to the newer (2009 I believe) ATA assembly without wind down issues, and the ATA is no more finicky/difficult to adjust than the U-turn. As long as it works without winding down I am fine.

Anyone else have problems with the ATA system after they've sent their fork back into Marz?

The ATA system is very easy to work on. The only other problem i know of besides the auto winddown is the stuckdown issue, where air bleeds from the positive to the negative chamber due to a worn or undersized o-ring. Ive made a guide showing you how to fix it in the shocks and suspension forum.

I would go for the 66. I own a lyrik and a 66 SL (non ata, but almost same sorta system), and the 66 is a much more lively feeling fork than the lyrik

 

[tacubaya]

The ATA system is very easy to work on. The only other problem i know of besides the auto winddown is the stuckdown issue, where air bleeds from the positive to the negative chamber due to a worn or undersized o-ring. Ive made a guide showing you how to fix it in the shocks and suspension forum.

I would go for the 66. I own a lyrik and a 66 SL (non ata, but almost same sorta system), and the 66 is a much more lively feeling fork than the lyrik

I own a 66 SL (non ata) and I was contemplating in buying a Lyrik near the future, could you explain yourself a bit more so I can have a nice unbiased comparison? Thanks mate :thumbsup:

 

[daway]

I just realized that the 2007 66's have 35mm stanchions instead of the newer 38mm ones. How will this compare with the stiffness of my Lyrik? Anyone ridden any combination of those forks that can make a comparison (pre-2007 66, Lyrik, newer 66)?

Also Nick_m2r you seem pretty knowledgeable about the fork, do you think the fact that he has removed the PAR chamber is good or bad? He said he could probably give me it to put it back in the fork, but yeah I have heard some problems with the PAR chamber so I don't know.

 

[FoShizzle]

I have owned both the Suntour 66 ATA and replaced it with the Lyrik Coil U-turn and it was SO much better in all regards. The ATA sucks ass, period.. Granted the Lyrik i replaced the 66 with was a 1.5" but I would have still opted for the 1.125" Lyrik coil ANY day

 

[daway]

I have owned both the Suntour 66 ATA and replaced it with the Lyrik Coil U-turn and it was SO much better in all regards. The ATA sucks ass, period.. Granted the Lyrik i replaced the 66 with was a 1.5" but I would have still opted for the 1.125" Lyrik coil ANY day

By Suntour 66 ATA you mean a 2008/2009 one right?

Hmmm, I am still completely on the fence here about what to do. My Lyrik Coil U turn has worked amazingly, I blew out the rebound damper once but that is it. I would hate to make the trade for the 66 if it only has problems...:madman:

Maybe I will just hold out for SOMEONE (fox, rockshox, anyone!) to make a 140-180mm travel adjustable fork that actually works...I would kill for a Totem U-turn. Or even a 180mm Fox with a TALAS system.

Any more input here would be appreciated! The fact that I will not be the original owner scares me a bit, as Marz may not be as helpful in the event that I have problems with the fork.

 

[Nick_M2R]

I own a 66 SL (non ata) and I was contemplating in buying a Lyrik near the future, could you explain yourself a bit more so I can have a nice unbiased comparison? Thanks mate :thumbsup:

Righto, ill do me best :thumbsup:

First, let me say that both are great forks, very nice performance from both. here are some pros of each fork.

Lyrik:
Smooth action
Compression adjust controls are on the top of the fork
light (only just)
Maxle (but the 66 bolt up isnt a problem)
Floodgate (makes th hill climbs easier)
easy to service
parts are easy to come by (well in Australia anyway)

66:
Open bath (= UBER plush and very long service intervals)
Greater stiffness than the lyrik
Infinite travel adjust, its advertised as only 40mm travel adjust, but i found that by pumping the negative chamber even more, you lower the travel more without making the small bump compliance go. I run mine ATM at 125 and its still uber plush.
Easy to service
Compression adjust makes a noticeable difference
06 forks look killer

In the end however, the 66 wins, for these reasons:

- the compression adjusters have little difference in the final feel of the fork. Until i opened up my MC and tuned the shimstack, the compression adjusters had almost no effect.
- I much prefer open bath dampers compared to semi bath, much more reliable
- Rockshox forks, while being great in both quality and performance, my major beef with thim is that the internals are... shall we say.. flimsy? They work, but are always clicking, swooshing and pinging, all the rockshox forks where i live (most owned by my mates ) make some sort of nosie internally, my lyriks did aswell and its hell annoying. Another thing my lyrik suffered from is the damper oil leaking from the damper to the lowers causing hydrolock. Even though it happened only twice, and its an easy fix, i reckon its due to the fact that the rebound rod has ALOT of free play in its housing, its a flimsy design

Here is my advice to you. Dont sell the 66, instead by a RC3 cartridge and replace the RC2 cart thats in there. Only thing you have to do after buying the cart is to change the topcap assembly with the one from the RC2 and drop it into the fork. I had a spare RC3 cart and wondered if it would fit, so after some tinkering, i found it did. This fork now rocks, its even smoother than before and RC3 feels awesome. I like how RC3 is both Hsc and lsc in one knob, its much easy to tune. MC can take alot of fiddling to balance the feel.

In conclusion, get a RC3 cart for your 66 SL, it will make it come alive, i promise :thumbsup:

Also Nick_m2r you seem pretty knowledgeable about the fork, do you think the fact that he has removed the PAR chamber is good or bad? He said he could probably give me it to put it back in the fork, but yeah I have heard some problems with the PAR chamber so I don't know.

People often remove the PAR piston because it can sometimes prevent you using all the travel, because only a VERY small amount of air is needed in there to prevent bottom out. Put to much and your gonna loose travel, i only run about 5-10 PSI max. If your into heavy FR, id put it back in, because Bottom out on FR drops sucks, but if your more into DH, i reckon you'd be ok without. Ask him for the PAR piston (and whatever else he removed aswell) and if you dont like the feel ( maybe you prefer more Progressiveness) then just drop the PAR assembly back in, easy job and it wont hurt the fork with it in or out

Hope this helps :thumbsup:

 

[climbingbubba]

I still regret the day i sold my 07 66 ata. it was an amazing fork. The wind down problem was hardly an issue. using a velcro strap fixed that. My brother is actually trying to find one right now.

One thing that might help is you probably won't gain any weight. the 07 marz ata's only weighted 5.7 lbs. thats probably about what the lyrik u-turn weighed.

A lot of people removed the par chamber to give the fork a more linear feel (much like a lyrik). With the par it made it really progressive and some felt too progressive. Some claimed to the point they could never get the last inch of travel. Im sure it will be fine.

The stuck down issue nick speaks off will not happen since it was the par chamber that caused that. Also that wasn't really a problem with the 07's.

I have since owned a 09 marz ata and it was maybe a little more plush but weighed .5 lbs more and had a few issues.

Id say go for it. as long as the fork is in good condition and if the guy is honest and says it doesn't have any problems then im sure it would be ok. most of the problems with these forks happened right out of the box.

 

[StinkyOne]

I currently am running an 07 66 ATA SL1 and I love the thing. I do have the wind down problem, but I have already spoke with Marz Tech and they gave me the option to get the new ATA top cap that stops this problem for something like $22 + shipping. Right now I have a ghetto fix keeping it in place. Problem is I left the U.S. and live in a small underdeveloped bike culture country. I am a big guy, 230lbs and this fork rocks. I still have the par in with a little too much pressure. I get about 175ish mm of travel, but that is ok for me it keeps the fork totally bottoming out all the time (just on the bigger stuff). I bought the thing used and I was worried that it was going to be a lemon, but have been very happy with it. Right now it is on the front of a 09 SX trail; match made in heaven!

 

[jimmydean012]

I have a 2006 66Light + Eta. The 35mm stanchions are no issue, the pure beef of the crown on this fork makes it one the stiffest I have ever ridden. The only issue you may face is the relatively high A2C, but I actually liked the way it changed the riding of my bike. ANY 06-07 66 series fork is the way to go, super stiff+super butter plush+long maintenance intervals+looks cool = win.

 

[JD Risk]

Great thread! I'm in the same situation. I'm currently running a 07 66 SL ATA on a Banshee Rune and I'm thinking about replacing it with a Lyric coil. I bought the 66 slightly used but in excellent shape and from day 1 it worked ok but I had to run extremely low air pressure to get the fork to feel decent. Nowhere near manufacturer's settings. I talked to Marz and they suggested I replace the o rings and change the oil. I did this by the book and even consulted Marz and a thread here in the process. Now I can run the right psi but the fork seems to lose travel from time to time and it feels really sticky. I tend to bounce off things that I should be rolling over, at least compared to my coil forks. With the sag I get, it should feel pretty plush. The only thing I can think of is the o rings Marz sent me aren't quite the right size. I could never get my last inch or less of travel either. From some of the reviews I've read it seems if I can get everything working properly this fork should feel like butter. I don't want to give up on this fork yet but the lyrics I've tried felt really good. Any suggestions?

 

[Gemini2k05]

Great thread! I'm in the same situation. I'm currently running a 07 66 SL ATA on a Banshee Rune and I'm thinking about replacing it with a Lyric coil. I bought the 66 slightly used but in excellent shape and from day 1 it worked ok but I had to run extremely low air pressure to get the fork to feel decent. Nowhere near manufacturer's settings. I talked to Marz and they suggested I replace the o rings and change the oil. I did this by the book and even consulted Marz and a thread here in the process. Now I can run the right psi but the fork seems to lose travel from time to time and it feels really sticky. I tend to bounce off things that I should be rolling over, at least compared to my coil forks. With the sag I get, it should feel pretty plush. The only thing I can think of is the o rings Marz sent me aren't quite the right size. I could never get my last inch or less of travel either. From some of the reviews I've read it seems if I can get everything working properly this fork should feel like butter. I don't want to give up on this fork yet but the lyrics I've tried felt really good. Any suggestions?

If it's winding down you need to tighten the screws on the detent adjust springs (or whatever they're called). The stickiness probably means your fork needs a rebuild, by someone experienced maybe? Make sure you put the right oil weight in the damper and use grease in the proper places. Did you grease your seals/bushings? Maybe those need replacing.

 

[climbingbubba]

Great thread! I'm in the same situation. I'm currently running a 07 66 SL ATA on a Banshee Rune and I'm thinking about replacing it with a Lyric coil. I bought the 66 slightly used but in excellent shape and from day 1 it worked ok but I had to run extremely low air pressure to get the fork to feel decent. Nowhere near manufacturer's settings. I talked to Marz and they suggested I replace the o rings and change the oil. I did this by the book and even consulted Marz and a thread here in the process. Now I can run the right psi but the fork seems to lose travel from time to time and it feels really sticky. I tend to bounce off things that I should be rolling over, at least compared to my coil forks. With the sag I get, it should feel pretty plush. The only thing I can think of is the o rings Marz sent me aren't quite the right size. I could never get my last inch or less of travel either. From some of the reviews I've read it seems if I can get everything working properly this fork should feel like butter. I don't want to give up on this fork yet but the lyrics I've tried felt really good. Any suggestions?

the last inch of travel problem is a Par chamber problem. Its a pretty easy procedure and will help it to use all of its travel. search around and im sure you could find the threads on it.

 

[JD Risk]

the last inch of travel problem is a Par chamber problem. Its a pretty easy procedure and will help it to use all of its travel. search around and im sure you could find the threads on it.

I figured the problem is in the PAR chamber. Are you talking about removing it or fixing it? I've seen threads about removing it. I'd rather keep it and have some bottom out resistance, but as it stands it's essentially a 6 in travel fork with the height of a 7. Another thing, I don't know if the occasional "wind down" I get is due to the detent thingy, but when I notice the fork has reduced its travel, I can pull it back up to full travel with my hands and it works fine. Not sure what's going on there.

 

[climbingbubba]

The wind down thing is the top cap turning itself. it can easily be fixed by getting a new knob from marz with a stop, or even easier, getting a velcro strap and making sure the cap can't rotate.

what are you running in the par chamber and how much do you weigh? i weigh about 180 and ran 50psi in the main chamber and 80psi in the par. i never had the problem of not getting full travel. also are you running any air in the RC2 side? if you are running any detectable amount then it will make it really stiff in the initial stroke. i didn't like it empty but if it is even at 5psi it would make it stiff. i did about 5-7 pumps just to add a little air.

The par chamber removal will just make it more linear which should help you get more travel out of it. If it bottoms you can always turn up the high speed compression or even put the par chamber back in.

i will admit it is not as plush as a coil fork but what air fork is? It easily makes up for it with all the ways you can tune it and the extra travel.

 

[JD Risk]

Thanks for the advice. I'm almost positive the top cap isn't turning on its own. I'll double check next time I ride. Marzocchi told me to keep 30 or 40 psi more in the par than in the ATA so I've been running 140 psi in the bottom and 100 psi in the top. Nothing in the RC2 side. I'm 200 lbs. Before I changed the o rings, if I ran that much pressure the fork felt locked out. I'll try running it closer to your settings and see what that does. I agree it's never going to feel like a coil but I'm not too picky.

 

[climbingbubba]

Thanks for the advice. I'm almost positive the top cap isn't turning on its own. I'll double check next time I ride. Marzocchi told me to keep 30 or 40 psi more in the par than in the ATA so I've been running 140 psi in the bottom and 100 psi in the top. Nothing in the RC2 side. I'm 200 lbs. Before I changed the o rings, if I ran that much pressure the fork felt locked out. I'll try running it closer to your settings and see what that does. I agree it's never going to feel like a coil but I'm not too picky.

yeah thats alot of pressure. no wonder you aren't getting full travel. since you weigh more try running 60-70 in the main and 90-100 in the top. the best way is to put about 100 in the par and then keep adjusting the main until you get the sag you want then put the par at 30psi over the main.

I am almost positive it is the top cap that is turning. to test it get a zip strip or something and make it so the top cap can't turn. you should be able to ride all day without it lowering at all. The fix is a top cap that has a little tooth that fits into the notches. hard to explain but when you take the topcap off you will see little notches all the way around. the cap has on little tooth that fits in there and prevents it from turning. to lower the fork you have to pull the top cap part way up and turn it so the tooth can clear the notches.