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Looking for the most relaible/consistent brakes

8K views 39 replies 22 participants last post by  CrozCountry 
#1 ·
I've got a set of XT M785s. I bought them just as they were being discontinued, because everything I was reading said these were totally reliable. Well, they have been a lot better than the sets that came before, but I still have frequent issues requiring bleeds (sometimes multiple) and the performance is not very consistent (my latest issue is in another thread).

I am totally happy with the stopping power and feel of them when they are working 100%, but unfortunately, that is only about 2/3 of the time.

So I am looking for an alternative, and I want to know what brakes have a long standing, rock solid reputation for being trouble free. Few things about what I am looking for:

-Acceptable stopping power. I don't have huge needs in this regard. If they are as strong as my XTs, then they are fine (more would be nice, but not required)
-I would prefer mineral oil, but DOT is not a dealbreaker
-I am willing to spend more if needed.
-Don't care if they are heavy
-Any wandering bite nonsense (or even the possibility) is a total non-starter (does this simply rule out Shimano?)

So, what is the conventional wisdom on this these days?
 
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#2 ·
magura mt 5 or 7 series

mineral oil

strong braking

you have to know how to bleed them
and do minibleeds, but once bled properly, they are fine*

*actually most brakes are fine, I don't understand how anyone can have
issues as you describe except a bad unit...but I have no issues with shimano
OR my (shudder) Avids either....but I prefer the feel and power of the maguras
 
#4 ·
TRP's Quadiem and DHR-Evo are both quite consistent and reliable.Most any professional review will mention the same.

I've got a set of Quadiems on my bike, and they have been nothing but consistent for me. My biggest single day with them was 13000ft of descending (bike park day), and my longest single decent was ~1300ft. Never had any issues with the bite points wandering, no weird noises, or fading, or pumping up.

I've never used Maguras, but I hear good things about them. I have heard they can be more difficult to bleed correctly IIRC, but as I said, thats more hearsay than actual experience.
 
#6 ·
The more time I have with my dominions, the more I like them. Long term reliability, I don't know, but bleeding is a breeze and from the manual rebuild's not difficult either.
 
#9 ·
TRP Quadiem, strong, consistent, durable.

I run them on both my bikes, three years in one set, one year on the other set, no issues with either.

For perspective, I go through two to three sets of semi metallic pads per year on my primary bike.

Longest continuous descent 4K, no heat up issues.
 
#12 ·
I have direct experience with the following - Magura Trail (4 piston front, 2 piston rear), Magura MT7 (4 piston front/rear), Formula Cura 4

Lots of people seem to dig the TRP and Dominion brakes but I don't have direct experience with them.

Magura and Formula have been pretty much change pads for maintenance, bleed if I change hoses for a new frame.
 
#19 ·
Once the Shimano problems start they don't end. Whether it starts depends on how dirty your conditions are. If you ride in a lot of mud, it will start sooner.

Currently on XT M8120 4 pistons. So far so good, but no illusions. I know the day will come. At that point I will replace them with something else.

Historically Deore have been more reliable than XT, so now when they have 4 Piston Deore I would focus the research on that. May be too early to have user reports.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the input, all! I did look into everything suggested.

I decided on the Magura MT7 HC. I was very tempted by the Quadiems and the MT5 (both being cheaper and apparently equally reliable), but I like short levers that can be adjusted pretty close to the bar, and the MT7 seemed the most likely to offer that. Definitely more than I ever thought I would spend on brakes, but this is one of the few things I know I can take with me to my next bike when I change wheelsize.
 
#22 ·
Since Shimano keeps coming up.... the reason I want to try something else is because I have not been happy with the ones I have. I don't know if I have the often mentioned "wandering bite point" (these supposedly don't have this problem) but what I do know is that too often the brakes are not engaging quite where I am expecting them to. Combine that with how hard they innitially bite (which I do like if I know exactly when to expect it) and I find they can be a bit distracting and nerve wracking at the very moments when I can afford it the least. To be honest, I am still more comfortable in hairy situations on my BB7s simply due to how much more predictable they are for me.

And I am needing to bleed them about every 3 months when in use. And these bleeds can take multiple tried to get stubborn bubbles out of the caliper. This is just more work and down time than I care for. Hydros are supposed to be LESS work than mechs, not more.

So, maybe I just got a pair of lemons, but I'm really looking to try a different brand.

OTOH, I think the Ice Tech rotors are great. They never go out of true on me.
 
#25 ·
Since Shimano keeps coming up.... I don't know if I have the often mentioned "wandering bite point" (these supposedly don't have this problem) but what I do know is that too often the brakes are not engaging quite where I am expecting them to.

And I am needing to bleed them about every 3 months when in use. .
In many years on multiple bikes and most with Shimano brakes, I have never had any of the OP's described problems. Perhaps you could articulate a bit more on what your idea of Wandering Bite Point is?

I rarely need to bleed any of these brakes outside of caliper or brake line removal. I do semi-regularly purge the brakes with fresh brake fluid, but that's not really 'bleeding' the brakes. I'm not bleeding air, I'm just pushing fluid through.
 
#23 ·
Lots of good choices, IMO it comes down to the feel you like and budget. I hear Trickstuff are next level if budget isn't an issue, but never tried them myself. I don't feel like any other brands are clearly superior but the wandering bite point on Shimano is concerning. Probably some inconsistency in manufacturing since some don't get it and others do. SRAM used to have big issues with inconsistent processes but now seem pretty solid. My Code RSC have been excellent if you like a brake with that requires a bit more lever travel and force to lock up.
 
#24 ·
Kapusta-my guess is something is wrong with your Shimano set up. Consider test riding another bike with the same brakes to verify.

I state this because I ran BB7's on 7 different bikes from 2005-2016. In 2016 I tried XT hydros and never went back to BB7's There should be a day and night difference between the two systems.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Kapusta-my guess is something is wrong with your Shimano set up. Consider test riding another bike with the same brakes to verify.

I state this because I ran BB7's on 7 different bikes from 2005-2016. In 2016 I tried XT hydros and never went back to BB7's There should be a day and night difference between the two systems.
Yes I have tried other XTs, SLX, and Deore. And various SRAM. Nothing gravity oriented (like Saints) They all work great when they work great. A couple didn't work so great (felt like they needed a bleed to me), but the people whose bike they were on didn't seem to notice or care.

I have also run BB7s on too many bikes to count since 2002. Still do on my Fat Bike, and my wife's HT.

I have always felt that the claimed difference between many hydros (at least all the non-gravity ones I've tried) and BB7s was a bit overblown. Hydros are better for sure, but I never felt it was night and day. But I am also very good at setting BB7s up (which is not easy to do really well) and don't mind giving the knobs a quick twiddle every few rides. Whenever I try someone elses bike with mechs, they never feel or work as well as mine.

But at this point I would trade the power and silky feel of my XTs for the reliabilty and consistency of the BB7s. I've given these XTs 6 years to change my mind. Maybe I got lemons, I don't know and at this point don't really care.

However, don't want to go back to BB7s on my FS bike, I want reliable, consistent hydros. That is why I started this thread.

And I've got my answers and I've ordered something.

Thanks.
 
#28 ·
I was in a similar boat, but I had still been mostly satisfied with my Shimano brakes. Not thrilled, but satisfied. I've noticed the wandering bite point, but it's fallen into the category of annoyance for me, and nothing more.

Still, I decided to try Hayes Dominions on my latest bike because I wanted to try something new, and I knew that a few manufacturers had been stepping up with more competitive brakes recently. The consistency and reliability has been stellar. I like the lever feel better than Shimano (and I like that Shimanos come on a bit strong). They still have a lot of power on tap without a ton of lever throw, but it's way more predictable through application and modulation.
 
#39 ·
The wandering bite point is not solved by a bleed, it's created by an oil port that is too small that can't replenish the line during hard heavy braking (steep technical stuff where you are on the brakes constantly). If you have an air-bubble, then yes, you might have an inconsistent lever pull, but that's a different issue than their bite-point issue where the bite-point works outward under heavy braking, essentially the brakes can't "reset". This gets magnified the cooler the weather is, but it definitely happens when it's warm too. Has it been fixed finally? Who knows, I have several generations of shimano brakes and they all suffer from it. Their servo wave is nice, but their lack of replacement parts and addressing this plus the weeping caliper seals is just too much to deal with. Rode my XC bike yesterday that has sat for about 3 weeks. Yep, very little brake power due to the ceramic pistons weeping fluid. These were crap designs and they have crap support. I had the lever seal give out on my XTs on vacation, which turned into a major pain in the ass. With any of these, they are basically disposable brakes, waiting till something like the lever seal gives out, then you gotta trash em and get entirely new shimano brakes. Screw that. Hope may not have as much power, but they are much better quality and they make replacement parts. I just put a bigger rotor on em and not worry about it.
 
#31 ·
My (three pair of) Hope brakes have been the most consistent and reliable ones I have used up to now. Outperformed my Shimano’s and Magura’s in both categories combined. Not the most powerful though, but completely rebuildable by the end user and all spare parts available on the web.
Now sold some organs for Trickstuff brakes, will see how that works out.
 
#32 ·
I'm currently using mt5's which are my favorite brakes to date but they haven't been perfect. I've had two leaky levers, and one sticky piston that wouldn't fully retract (that was a fun ride). The sticky piston is on me. These brakes need piston lubrication like all brakes but unlike most brakes, they are prone to seizing up if you neglect this. In spite of the issues I've had I'm sticking with them because modulation and power are excellent. Best overall performance I've experienced and I've run a lot of brakes over the years. I was all in on shimano for years dealing with the wandering bite point and excessive bleeding before I decided to move on. I haven't owned sram brakes in while so I won't comment. I wasn't impressed with hope v4's. 2 pot power, 4 pot weight. The lever spring rebound was so strong they wore my hands out more than other brakes. Beautiful craftsmanship you don't see in other brakes though. Modulation was excellent but I had to ride the brakes for a second before I could stab them for quick bursts of power, and I felt like I had gone down a rotor size compared to the shimano zee's they replaced. While the v4's had a modulation range like nothing else, I like mt5's modulation better. The Hope's offer too much modulation IMO. The beginning stroke is so soft you end up dipping into mid stroke to get enough power to do anything. MT5's let you feather while still having a ton of power before dipping into the mid/end stroke.
 
#33 ·
Formula Cura 2-piston is a great way to have a LOT of power, with out the hassle of ensuring that 4 pistons per caliper are clean and balanced.


 
#37 ·
TRP DH-R Evo are the best. Go read the reviews. Everyone loves them and some say they are the best braking system hands down. They use mineral oil, easy to bleed, uses the funnel just like Shimano and you can use Shimao Saint brake pads in them, so it's easy to find pads.
 
#38 ·
I'm going to have to ask the OP as to what your definition of what's "best"? We deal with mostly 3 maybe 4 brands in several models Shimano, Magura, SRAM (Guide and Code), Hope.

These are just our and my own experiences with them.

- Shimano 2 pots, mineral oil, easy to maintain and consistent performance. Not the strongest brakes out there. Power comes on sooner but not much after that.

- Shimano 4 pots, mineral oil, inconsistent performance. We've been having a lot of customers come in with problems with their 4 pots.

- Magura, mineral oil but not easy to get a good quality bleed out of them. Very strong when they work properly but I'd say 50% of them aren't working properly and the riders don't notice.

- Hope... DOT 5.1, nice to look at. Not much in terms of power. Most riders won't notice until you go really fast and need to be on the brakes hard, then it's obvious that they're lacking.

- SRAM Guides... I really don't like these and won't recommend them for heavy use. DOT 5.1

- SRAM Codes... much better than the Guides, needs more finger effort at light braking power. On fast, extended runs, may cause finger/hand pain. DOT 5.1

Our current favorites are the Hayes Dominion A2/A4. A2 is 2 pot, A4 is 4. DOT 5.1, very consistent performance, more power with less finger effort, max braking power is at least as good as the best out there. Minus is not many aftermarket brake pads available, however the Hayes pads are surprisingly good.
 
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