I find that I have greater control descending on tighter trails by centering my weight rather than hanging over the rear wheel. Maybe its the fact that my Heckler MX is upsized for me but maintaining control of the front wheel is better effected when I’m a little closer in.
Longer and Slacker, is there still a need to hang off the back while descending
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This is precisely why I can lurk over the seat with my Middlechild and the best part, my fvcking knees aren't hitting the bars.
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Yup. Ride some actual steep stuff (like BC slabs) and tell me you don’t hang off the back…
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Depends if I just rolled off a drop I REALLY shouldn’t have rolled.
Depends on the descent of course, that's the biggest faactor, but as a general rule, no you don't have to do that with the new geo nearly as much. It takes a while to re-program yourself not to hang your butt off the back though. Modern geos actually reward some center and front weighting also in some circumstances that would have been stupid in the old skool. It feels weird to use some of the new techniques but it works.
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Here is a decent video explaining the difference nicely. He compares old vs new, with both styles shown side by side.
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Old bike. New bike. Green bike. Blue bike. Doesnt matter what bike you have you should never be hanging off the back. Weight over the bottom bracket. Leave enough range of motion in your limbs you can still absorb impacts with your legs and arms. Weight behind the BB and arms locked is a position of fear and what causes you to go OTB regardless of bike geometry. I ride my 90s hardtail and 2021 model full suspension the same. There is just more room for error on the slacker bikes.
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If you are referring to the HP vid I posted, it bothered me how much he accentuated that in the "old school" example. I assumed that was also caused by the longer reach of the modern bike he was using
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Turn the bike 45-degrees downhill...where does your COM move in order to stay over the bottom bracket?
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About 15” to the non-drive side.
You’ll get grease stains on your pants if you walk on the drive side.
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As others have mentioned, getting way back behind the bottom bracket with arms straightened never was a proper technique. It was a compensation for terrible geometry (frame too short/stem too long/head angle too steep) and an unwillingness to stop and lower the seat. I can’t say that droppers really changed anything because we used to lower our seats via quick release decades ago. Now it’s just much more convenient.
That said, it was still possible to ride properly on old school bikes. I know the first upgrade I always did to my old bikes was to install a sensible 50mm stem.
New geo just makes it easier to get into the proper position for steeps — seat entirely out of the way, arms bent in the attack position, legs bent, hinged at the hips, and chest open and low.
On the really insanely steep stuff you do have to get back a ways, but the key is you have to be LOW and maintain weight on the bars. We have one trail that is exceptionally steep and one issue I run into with a 29” rear wheel is that my crotch must literally be on the rear tire during some sections in order to not go over the bars. Doesn’t happen on my other bike which is a 27.5F/26R mullet setup. My next full suspension bike will definitely not have a 29” rear wheel.
That said, it was still possible to ride properly on old school bikes. I know the first upgrade I always did to my old bikes was to install a sensible 50mm stem.
New geo just makes it easier to get into the proper position for steeps — seat entirely out of the way, arms bent in the attack position, legs bent, hinged at the hips, and chest open and low.
On the really insanely steep stuff you do have to get back a ways, but the key is you have to be LOW and maintain weight on the bars. We have one trail that is exceptionally steep and one issue I run into with a 29” rear wheel is that my crotch must literally be on the rear tire during some sections in order to not go over the bars. Doesn’t happen on my other bike which is a 27.5F/26R mullet setup. My next full suspension bike will definitely not have a 29” rear wheel.
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No matter what bike you're on, it's always about maintaining balance. Balancing weight between the tires or balancing weight between your hands and feet. I basically only get back as far as I have to and that changes based on the bike and what's happening on the trail. You should have a feel for where the tipping points are on different grades.
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From @cookieMonster above:
“…seat entirely out of the way, arms bent in the attack position, legs bent, hinged at the hips, and chest open and low.”
This is how I have seen it taught at Whistler, Moab and Hurricane. I would add to that, keep your back straight and not arched when you hinge forward at the hips, and when you bend your elbows, try to point them sideways and not backwards. All of this to keep your centre of gravity as low as possible.
It’s what they taught my daughter 7 years ago so it’s not necessarily restricted to the newest, most modern geo. I have never seen anyone in recent times teach others to hang way over the back tire.
“…seat entirely out of the way, arms bent in the attack position, legs bent, hinged at the hips, and chest open and low.”
This is how I have seen it taught at Whistler, Moab and Hurricane. I would add to that, keep your back straight and not arched when you hinge forward at the hips, and when you bend your elbows, try to point them sideways and not backwards. All of this to keep your centre of gravity as low as possible.
It’s what they taught my daughter 7 years ago so it’s not necessarily restricted to the newest, most modern geo. I have never seen anyone in recent times teach others to hang way over the back tire.
This was a newbie mistake I made. I realized I went OTB because I was hanging back with my arms stretched and I lost control of my front wheel. Now I’m conscious of keeping both the front and rear wheels weighted and maintaining the optimal position to control the handle bars
I’m sure there are jumps, gaps etc, where unweighting the front wheel is important but I’m talking strictly about trail descents here.
I’m sure there are jumps, gaps etc, where unweighting the front wheel is important but I’m talking strictly about trail descents here.
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I may be an outlier on this part but generally, I like to keep as much of my weight on my feet and keep my hands 100% neutral, weight wise. Even on steep steeps. If something in the terrain calls for weighting or unweighting of the front tire, I will adjust as I go.
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