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Long-travel AM Hardtail...?

6561 Views 23 Replies 16 Participants Last post by scotty878, Feb 24, 2011

scotty878

Discussion Starter · Feb 23, 2011

Hey guys, seems there's been a lot of these threads lately so I'll try to keep this fairly short. Looking to get a long-travel hardtail to go with my Nomad. Would be mostly trail ridden on a wide variety of trails, thrown in a little DJ perhaps, and once I get off my ass and start building, some pump track action. Thinking on running it set-up with 150-120mm RS Revelation and likely with a height adjust seatpost...

Bikes that are currently on my short list:
Cotic BFe
Ragley probably Blue Pig or BP X, but that could be decided later...
Santa Cruz Chameleon
Maybe Evil Sovereign...Bit pricier.

Other bikes considered but kind of filtered out for whatever reason; Dialled Alpine, NS Surge, On-One 456 or Summer Season, Transition TransAM, Chromag Stylus.

I realize certain bikes might be better suited toward certain styles, but what are your opinions on these bikes and how they would suit what I wanna do?

Any input for or against any bikes on my shortlist or otherwise is appreciated. I've got an idea of what I want, but maybe somebody will point out something I've over looked and nudge me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Scott D.
:thumbsup:

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

Verskis

· #2 · Feb 23, 2011

I have a Ragley Blue Pig and I think it would not be very capable dirt jump and pump track bike, it has too long rear end. At least I prefer more flickable feeling bike when riding that kind of stuff, but then again I'm riding BMX when dirt jumping.

As a trail bike the Blue Pig is very good.

lew242

· #3 · Feb 23, 2011

A Nomad is certainly a very hardcore machine certainly great at trails and very aggressive AM even light FR/DH. The thing is many of the bikes you mention are in the HT category of the machine you already have.

I would seriously consider a really flick-able manual-able smaller framed HT, with a short chain stay and really low top tube that could manual and DJ really well, then put a 120-150mm fork on it to slacken it out for FR style riding but keep the DJ capability, maybe like a Giant STP or something.

What's the point of buying something like a Nomad front end but with a HT back end?

deoreo

· #4 · Feb 23, 2011

lew242 said:
I would seriously consider a really flick-able manual-able smaller framed HT, with a short chain stay and really low top tube that could manual and DJ really well, then put a 120-150mm fork on it to slacken it out for FR style riding but keep the DJ capability, maybe like a Giant STP or something.

I kinda agree with this, I have a Gary Fisher PHD, awesome DJ geometry, and FR strong can run a 160mm fork no problem.
I use it at Ray's MTB Park and it's perfect.
One problem though is if you plan to use it as a trail bike (think 20+ mile ride) you may need a super long seatpost to get proper leg extension.
Also, for example on my PHD the seat tube angle can get kinda slack as the seat goes up.
If you can get an on the fly adjustable seatpost to work that may be the best solution.

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scotty878

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 23, 2011

Alright, I definitely feel where you guys are coming from, and I kind of agree, but I probably shouldn't even have bothered mentioning DJ because it will be such a small, perhaps non-existent part of my riding. If I was looking towards more DJ, I'd be leaning towards something like an SC Jackal or like you said, an STP. Primary use for the bike would definitely be trail rides, and eventually some pump track. I suppose it could even be considered as a back-up to the Nomad, which is probably why I was looking at similarly capable bikes. Just something to take out and beat up on some trails when I wanna ride a HT or maybe I don't need something quite as burly as a Nomad...

So lets forget I mentioned DJ, lets say 80% trail riding, eventually like 20% pump track. And maybe if I get really into the pump track and find myself jumping more down the road, I could possibly get something more capable. I just want I sweet trail hardtail that will take some abuse and that would be capable around a pump track, as I realize anything HT would be better then my Nomad.

Thanks again,
Scott D.

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dumbaSS

· #6 · Feb 23, 2011

BFe or Sovereign... shorter chainstay being the only difference that would make them stand out from the others in any way for your use.

mojojojoaf

· #7 · Feb 23, 2011

I own an Evil Sov- love it. It has been one of the best decisions to get one. But I feel that could be true for a Transition TransAm as well as some of the other steel HTs out there. I prefer steel and missed the way it rides when i went to full squishy. I have thought a couple of times about getting a 29r HT like the Paradox but the Evil just really shines for me.

Good all day in the saddle, up and down, really good down really really good...and I am still running it with Manitou Nixons. Looking to upgrade those soon. Seems like the RS Revelations are a good choice to keep weight down.

Anyways, you hit one point right on the head- get an adjustable seatpost, it makes life a lot easier on hard tails. I have one and can not fathom ever not owning one.

fotu

· #8 · Feb 23, 2011

dumbaSS said:
BFe or Sovereign... shorter chainstay being the only difference that would make them stand out from the others in any way for your use.

welll...the ragley front end geometry is pretty out there. Even my small is a long, big feeling bike, and I don't think it is because of the chainstays...

dumbaSS

· #9 · Feb 23, 2011

Their shorter chainstays would be slightly better (but still not ideal bikes) for DJ and pump track no?

mojojojoaf

· #10 · Feb 23, 2011

BTW I run my dropouts at the longest setting- keeps the front end down on the climbs and more stable on the way down. Much smoother.

With the dropouts all the way in, TO ME, it felt real twitchy (best description for me) and really hard to keep the front wheel connected on climbs.

wolfman00

· #11 · Feb 23, 2011

dont count out a jamis komodo. (just the frame) you can run a 150mm on it.

dumbaSS

· #12 · Feb 23, 2011

mojojojoaf said:
With the dropouts all the way in, TO ME, it felt real twitchy (best description for me) and really hard to keep the front wheel connected on climbs.

True but if you wanted to hit a pump track or DJ for a day you could slam it forward and have at it. Then just slide it back for the trails.

SuperbMan

· #13 · Feb 23, 2011

If you can find one...the venerable Sinister Ridge still rules the all-mountain hard tail roost.

Check FTW indusries as well-Frank is still making great hard tails.

FM

· #14 · Feb 23, 2011

Scotty878,
You are getting a variety of responses since thats the nature of all-mountain, especially when you add pumptracks and DJ's to the mix

I'll say this: 2-3 years ago I built up a pretty sweet curtlo custom all-mountain hardtail. The geometry is similar to a chromag samurai or a transition transam. I've ridden the hell out of it since then...really fun bike. Recently I found a great deal on a Canfield bros Yelli-screamy 29'er with a pimp AM build. As much as I like the curtlo, the AM 29'er is definitely my bike of choice these days for "hardtail" rides. So I'd definitely consider the yelli screamy and banshee paradox (very similiar geometry).

For context, I'm generally using these bikes for fire road climbs to steep PNW technical XC descents, pumpy/flowy AM trails, and intermediate skills-park jump lines. Generally 1k' to 5k' up/down.

fotu

· #15 · Feb 23, 2011

Maybe I am just a big old *****, but I really can't tell the difference between 1/4 and 1/2 in change in chainstay length. And I have had several jump and trail bikes with "adjustable" rear wheel positions.

Edit: Jeez, I can' t even write "d00sh" on here???

b-kul

· #16 · Feb 23, 2011

if you are just doing trail with maybe a bit of pumptrack thrown in most any frame such as an on one 456 with a fork that can adjust down to 100mm should fit the bill.

juice

· #17 · Feb 23, 2011

fotu said:
I really can't tell the difference between 1/4 and 1/2 in change in chainstay length.

I'm the opposite - I find a 1/4 change in chainstay to be a HUGE difference. I'm on a TransAm, had it since they were first released, and I love it. 16.7" stays seem a nice balance between fun and stable, and the lowish BB is just awesomely fun.

I'd definitely go steel, it's just nicer. The extra heft of the TransAm is nice too, since whenever I break a fully (which is more often than it should be), the TransAm still works perfectly. It also works equally well geared or singlespeed, which is what I'm currently running.

scotty878

Discussion Starter · #18 · Feb 23, 2011

Thanks everyone for the continued input...Regarding some of the post:

With regard to chainstay length, the BFe and Sovereign are probably front runners because of it, and I definitely like the sliding dropouts on the Sovereign. But with the Evil, I've heard the top tube feels pretty short, and I don't want it super short, as again, it will be primarily a trail bike. Also, it's a little more money then I really want to spend and I heard of some problems with quality, although I think that relates more to the Revolt than anything else. And Evil is supposed to be revived and coming back into things but they haven't updated their site since 2009. There's not even a page on the Sovereign with some solid info...

SuperbMan - Thought about a Ridge, but like you said, if I could find one...Availability and a little of the price are what are keeping me away from that...

FM - I was thinking I wanted to stick to 26" for now, because I was thinking getting some sort of 29er down the road, but then that makes me go back to thinking, "well if I'd get a 29er for the trails, why not go with something more pump track/DJ friendly right now?" But I want something trail capable in the mean time...

...It's driving me mad. As much as I love getting a new bike, I hate deciding!

I guess maybe I have to start thinking long term and how I'm going to fill my quiver as I go. Although, I am getting ever closer to saying screw it and pulling the trigger on the BFe...We'll see.

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monstertiki

· #19 · Feb 24, 2011

I know you said you filtered them out but If you need a small, transition is blowing out trans ams for around 330. i have a summer season with a lyrik on it. currently it's setup single speed but when I had gears on it it was a very capable trail slayer. Not sure If I'm liking the single speed summer season, I'm gonna try a bigger cogg, if that doesn't work than it's going back to 1x9. Good luck on your search, so many choices out there it's always hard to decide. Just buy one build it and ride the hell out of it. those BFes do look sweet though.

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tyler243

· #20 · Feb 24, 2011

If ya don't know already the Blue pig x can run horizontal dropouts, since you mentioned you like that..

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