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Log ramps: Good? Bad? And how best to build them?

35K views 56 replies 32 participants last post by  Donkeeboy 
#1 ·
I'm interested both in opinions about whether ramping up to an existing fallen log is good or bad...and if "good," then I'm exploring bombproof ways to build these ramps so they last.

Here's an excerpt from a page on MTB Resource Homepage...
Log ramps. A popular but misguided trail maintenance technique is to build a pile of logs to create a ramp up and over an existing fallen log. Our opinion is that these log piles are generally a bad idea. Most trails are shared use, and these flimsy ramps are a big obstacle to horses and hikers. One solution is to cut a gap and make the log pile optional. However, we've only seen three or four log piles out of hundreds that were well constructed. Throwing a bunch of rotting logs and twigs at an obstructing log and calling it trail maintenance is just being lazy. A well built log ramp will use at least 8-10-inch diameter logs. They may need to be fastened in place: use rope or wire, not dangerous spikes. Build them well, take pride in your work, and be sure to leave an easier option.
Thoughts? Any ideas or experience on building good ramps?

I agree these ramps can be a pain when people just kick whatever loose logs/sticks are laying around up against the big log, because they inevitably fall apart and just leave smaller logs strewn across the trail on either side of the big log. (Which is why I'm wondering about more longlasting techniques?)

Scott
 
#35 ·
You ever ask them? I kept hearing from other people that it "wasn't allowed". I asked the landowner (a multi-national local logging company). They said "sure", nobody had ever asked before.

It wasn't quite a simple as that but the main point is that it doesn't hurt to ask.
 
#40 ·
Interesting thread.

There are lots of log piles at my local trail. Some are good, some are really bad. The good ones use long logs and become very solid, the bad ones have shorter and skinnier logs that bounce around and often move.

This past weekend I witnessed one bad accident, took part in another, and almost had another :D. The first, basically guy goes over big log pile but on other side logs had moved and his front wheel got turned and wedged in there so he endoed into the next pile. Mine was similar - went over a log pile that I don't usually ride and found that there were no logs on the other side (there were on one part but not the part I was on) and I endoed and unfortunately face-planted into the frozen singletrack. Got my bell rung good. Third, on other side there's a skinny loose log that flopped up and almost wedged itself into front wheel.

Point is, log piles require maintenance. And the lesson for me is: always assume there's nothing on the other side, and treat it as if it weren't built up.

Funny, because after recently riding the trails in Chicoppe just outside Atlanta and complaining that they were boring, overly-maintained, and "for the love of god could you just leave one friggin' log in the trail".
 
#45 ·
enjoy the thread,, log ramps. log overs I think are a tradition in mtbking... every year we get blow downs, those dang trees seem to know how to fall on the trail....if they interrupt things too much, we cut them out, but every so often one drops in a spot that 3 feet of quick elevation change really adds to the trail experience.

I've found keeping the stacking log sections about 5 to 6 feet long and 8-15 inch in diameter provides a nice solid stack that won't get wobbly on you, packing in some clay helps , something we have a lot of... they have lasted 5 years at least...

we are laying out about 4 miles of new trail and I am always on the lookout to include deadfall features if they are still in their prime.
 
#49 ·
Just because I can hop an 18" log doesn't mean I think all logs should be 18" tall, but there should be more than zero 18" tall logs in a trail system or else my mega knackers might start to wither :-(

I put in ride arounds in when I make trail.

Hows this, when there is a pre-existing trail that has logs in it and you didn't build that trail, you leave the logs there.

There is far more of a problem of people removing items from trails they didn't build than people building things people can't ride.

And most of the guys I ride with can clear 18" logs pretty consistently, I never thought I'd be part of the %1, instead of a post ride beer I'll be rolling with Caviar and Champagne from now on.
 
#53 ·
Just because I can hop an 18" log doesn't mean I think all logs should be 18" tall, but there should be more than zero 18" tall logs in a trail system or else my mega knackers might start to wither :-(

I put in ride arounds in when I make trail.

Hows this, when there is a pre-existing trail that has logs in it and you didn't build that trail, you leave the logs there.

There is far more of a problem of people removing items from trails they didn't build than people building things people can't ride.


And most of the guys I ride with can clear 18" logs pretty consistently, I never thought I'd be part of the %1, instead of a post ride beer I'll be rolling with Caviar and Champagne from now on.
+1

Most of us posting in this thread are talking about legal trails that we are responsible for. I'd never consider doing anything to someone else's trail without consulting them first.
 
#54 ·
Removing such trees by chainsaw is my preferred method unless the trail is designed to accommodate such features. In our local climate "pile of logs" obstacles only last 2-3 years before starting to rot significantly and require removal/rebuilding (ie not worth the effort in the first place). And, as you mentioned, they are not very secure against vandals.

Here are a few examples of longer lasting features we've built locally. Bypass lines are a good idea on multi-use trails. Users will make them anyways so might as well make them go where you want. Use long timber/construction lag screws to secure the framing members to the log; at least 6" into the log. Screw a piece of treated 4x4, 2x6, or 2x4 perpendicular to and on the bottom of the ramp joists which is 12" wider than the joist spacing, extend the joists into the ground ~ 8", and cover/compact with soil to create a solid footing for the ramps.


 
#2 ·
Okay, found this thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/building-log-trail-ramp-252910.html

I understand log ramps aren't good on multi-use trails. And ramping just half the log on dedicated MTB trails is a good option too.

And of course I also understand the ideal way to deal with logs is PRACTICE getting over them. I'm comfortable up to 12-14"...but higher than that I'm debris, LOL---and just have trouble finding the time to practice crossings that high...but i'll work on it.

Meanwhile, I think well-constructed log ramps can actually be fun...hence my question about techniques for building them to last...
 
#3 ·
logs rot and move, you're better off using rock and/or dirt. There I did the disclaimer. Now, I have log pile ramps all over my trails that have held up for years in the wettest place in Canada, Vancouver Island. I have found that if you stack carefully and use fairly long logs (4' or more) there is not much else required. If your pile is good and solid... kick the crap out of it to test it... it will hold up for a good long time. It's vital to make another path for hikers and horses on multi use trails or risk having your ride-over removed. I put the ride-over as the side trail.

Oh yeah, we have fallen trees over 6 feet in diameter. Anyone who wants to learn to ride over one of those is welcome to try.
 
#4 ·
I've used them just fine for years, too. Yeah, they rot and you have to deal with that eventually, but where I've lived, many riders get mad if you cut stuff out that's in a good size range for a log pile. Sometimes I've seen notches cut partially through larger downed trees so the log pile doesn't need to be quite so big.

Whatever you do, don't haphazardly stack oddly-shaped branches in the process of building one. Sometimes it will seem solid at first, but those irregularly shaped branches move over time and sometimes right when someone is on them. I have been known to entirely disassemble such poorly built log piles preferring to dismount and climb over the downed tree instead of riding that death trap.
 
#5 ·
I have seen several well made log ramps last years. If done properly, the small logs decompose with the tree trunk to keep the ride smooth. I have also seen a few ramps cut from freshly fallen trees by good chain sawers - they have been there for years and still smooth as heck.

Even if there are no "go-arounds," no one has complained where I live; and besides, it's the woods. The hiker or equestrian should be able to get over without destroying the ramp. Maybe if there are many ramps one after the other, a another user might get mad.

The trick is to make them wide, and a "go-around" if available.
 
#6 ·
generally I think they're a bad idea. most people will stack anything and think its a sound structure. Theres a few well built one on my local trails but these were built with larger "good wood" from downed trees. IMO a ladder bridge is a better option if an obtacle is too big. We had a huge downed tree that we decided to build a ladder bridge over the tall part a skinny and a go around so you have 3 options.
 

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#9 ·
We have log overs out the wazoo around here. Some are sound and some are downright rubbish. Don't get me wrong, some are fun and some of them have ramps made of burned out half-trunk sections rather than just piled sticks, so they can look and ride a little more interesting.

To me they are the remnants of a bygone time when trail construction was rogue and rapid, done without tools and built to suit XC riders looking for challenges that would be better avoided. There's nothing more disheartening than getting to the top of a pile of logs to find the far side destroyed by horses and motos. There's that oh crap moment before falling into gaps between logs, trying to do a standing nose wheelie while you unclip and avoid falling off trail into the inevitable uncleared stabbing objects. That is not a challenge; rather a stupidity.

Why someone would think a log over on a 15% downslope, 5m from a dodgy, skinny bridge, or a series of them through blind corners, so that the only successful riders are the ones who built and know they are there just escapes me. If you want to prove you can build and ride tech trails, then build something sound, sustainable, something all riders can attempt with basic safety and not just something that makes you look like a big man because you are the only one who even attempts all the features.

Oh and Pascale - does your dog have patches of lemon yellow fur?
 
#11 ·
Oh and Pascale - does your dog have patches of lemon yellow fur?
Thats Fozzy, he's a labradoodle. He's my buddy's dog. He actually dyed him orange last spring so he was yellow for a bit, now he's back to his white coat. Awesome dog, he comes out with us when we build and just hangs around. Wish I could find a dog like him.
 
#10 ·
Interesting points. If I build any log ramps, they'll definitely be on flat sections of trail, and definitely built with good (sometimes green), large logs, at least 4-6 feet long. I'm not gonna take the time to build any that won't a) stay put, and b) last a long time.

I like the idea of making log skinnies over other logs...will have to look into that.

Scott
 
#16 ·
Just a couple more.

Vegetation Natural environment Plant community Nature reserve Forest


I dug down about 2' and you have to duck a little for this one.

Natural environment Forest Trail Nature reserve Woodland


The 6 inch gap is a real confidence builder for a 10 year old rider. You could roll it, but they don't know that.

Wood Natural environment Plant Natural landscape Plant community


A whole log on the ground and then a log split in half placed round side down on top of that makes a smooth "ramp" and holds together very well with no nails or bolts.

Natural environment Plant Plant community Trail Nature reserve
 
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