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Nickel and Butcher?

How 'bout Santa Cruz's new Nickel and Butcher?

(Update) I found out from SantaCruz, that they have not tried a 27.5/650B tire in the back of their new Nickel. So they modeled a Pacenti Neomoto 2.3 on a computer, using an outer diameter of 690mm and a width of 58mm. These are the results:

nTire Clearance to ST at Bottom Out = 8.9
Tire Clearance to ST cable stop at Bottom Out = 8.4mm
Tire Clearance to seat stay = 9mm
Tire Clearance to chain stay = 11mm
It will also raise your BB by 5mm

Santa Cruz,"The Nickel is designed to fit a fairly tall 26 x 2.5 tire which isn¹t really
that much different than a 650B x 2.3 height wise."
"We haven't actually physically
tested the Nickel with any 650b rear wheels so your results may vary.
We only can say with 100% certainty that a 26" wheel with a fairly tall tire
(685mm Diameter) will not have any clearance issues"
"Again, we don't necessarily recommend it but it might work"

The Nickel is appealing to me because its 5" of travel suits my riding more than the Heckler's 6" travel. However, The Nickel also weighs .72 pounds more than a Heckler. Not a ridiculous amount, but a tad unreasonable, I think, because less travel usually equates to less weight on full sus bikes.
I'm still interested, because the quality of the ride on the new Nickel could be that much better than the Heckler to forgive the weight penalty.
I guess I'll have to wait til Mid-June to find out for reals.
 

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Blur XC carbon - not enough clearance

Tried a 650 with a quasi moto on my Blur XC carbon. While there was initially plenty of room, once the rear shock is depressed completely, it rubs on the seat tube and the front derailur cable that is routed along the seat tube. It does only rub in the last bit of the shocks travel so if you could put some type of spacer or bumper that would limit the last 1/2", it might work.

As is however, if you were to bottom out, you'd likely grind your tire along that pretty carbon seat tube, not to mention throw your front deraillur all out of what from the tire rubbing on the cable.
 

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650b frame tests from Sea Otter 2010

All these are 2010 frames, except one frame noted, most which do clear 650b are very tight clearance.

5.0 - 6.7 inch Frames that clear 650b x 2.3, may need a small shock travel limiting shim

Ellsworth: Epiphany (tested - clears seat tube at bottom travel)
Titus: Guapo (2008 - 2009 only)
Knolly: Endorphin (2.1 max)
Jamis: Dakar, Parker
Santa Cruz: Heckler, Butcher, Nickel, Blur Carbon BLT Carbon
Orange: Alpine (160mm), Five (140mm), St4 (120mm)
Foes: XCT, FXR
Intense: Uzzi VP
Pivot: Firebird (tested - clears seat tube at bottom travel)
Ibis: Mojo (may require small travel limit shim depending on shock, except HD easily clears seat tube at bottom travel)
Evil: Revolt
Specialized: Stumpjumper, Epic
Trek: Scratch, Remedy
GT: Sensor (2.0 max), Force , Force Carbon
Rocky Mountain: Slayer (2.2 max), Altitude (2.2 max)
Marin: Mt. Vision, Wolf Ridge

5.0 - 6.7 inch Frames that do not clear 650b:

Ellsworth: Moment
Titus: Guapo (2010)
Banshee: (all)
Commencal: (all)
Santa Cruz: Blur, BLT, Nomad, Nomad Carbon
Yeti: (all)
Felt: (all)
Specialized: Enduro Carbon
Trek: Top Fuel
BMC: (all)
 

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derby said:
All these are 2010 frames, except one frame noted, most which do clear 650b are very tight clearance.

5.0 - 6.7 inch Frames that clear 650b x 2.3, may need a small shock travel limiting shim

Ellsworth: Epiphany (tested - clears seat tube at bottom travel)
Titus: Guapo (2008 - 2009 only)
Knolly: Endorphin (2.1 max)
Jamis: Dakar, Parker
Santa Cruz: Heckler, Butcher, Nickel, Blur Carbon BLT Carbon
Orange: Alpine (160mm), Five (140mm), St4 (120mm)
Foes: XCT, FXR
Intense: Uzzi VP
Pivot: Firebird (tested - clears seat tube at bottom travel)
Ibis: Mojo (may require small travel limit shim depending on shock, except HD easily clears seat tube at bottom travel)
Evil: Revolt
Specialized: Stumpjumper, Epic
Trek: Scratch, Remedy
GT: Sensor (2.0 max), Force , Force Carbon
Rocky Mountain: Slayer (2.2 max), Altitude (2.2 max)
Marin: Mt. Vision, Wolf Ridge

5.0 - 6.7 inch Frames that do not clear 650b:

Ellsworth: Moment
Titus: Guapo (2010)
Banshee: (all)
Commencal: (all)
Santa Cruz: Blur, BLT, Nomad, Nomad Carbon
Yeti: (all)
Felt: (all)
Specialized: Enduro Carbon
Trek: Top Fuel
BMC: (all)
Weird to see Commencal on the list as A Nony Moose easily fit a 650b with Neomoto in back on an earlier generation Meta 5.5 frame.
 

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salimoneus said:
Here's a shot from Sea Otter of an HD with a 2.4, looks like a 2.6 would be pretty tight, but it's still hard to tell from this angle...
I fit my Pacenti 2.3 x 650b in an HD with 1/4 inch clearance in the yoke and about 1/2 inch to the seat tube when bottomed out. The larger volume Kenda Nevegal 2.35 x 650b should clear too.

I do still need to get a 12mm axle conversion for my rear Hadley and test ride the HD with 650b front and rear. The BB height would be about 14.25" topped out. With deep sag and the longer wheelbase that BB height should be no issue, actually desirable for heavier riders.
 

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MMcG said:
Weird to see Commencal on the list as A Nony Moose easily fit a 650b with Neomoto in back on an earlier generation Meta 5.5 frame.
Like Titus did with the Guapo in 2010 they may have tightened up the wheel fit tolerance to increase stay stiffness, or shorten stay length.
 

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salimoneus said:
Yea, but that's about what I'd expect to see on a 100mm carbon XC race bike, well at least the fork is 100mm I don't know about the frame.
Right - but clearance with skinny XC race tires in 26" form - does not mean there will be good clearance with 650bs even with say Quasi 2.0s - get what I'm driving at?
 

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MMcG said:
Right - but clearance with skinny XC race tires in 26" form - does not mean there will be good clearance with 650bs even with say Quasi 2.0s - get what I'm driving at?
I was just using the standard 1/2" rule, going from a 2.0 in a 26er to a 2.0 in 650b, there appears to be lots of room. Do you think the 1/2" rule is way off the mark in this case? Even if it's a bit off, there appears to be well over an inch of room, I can't see how a 2.0 Quasi would not fit back there, assuming clearance everywhere else is good.
 
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