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Lenz and El Capitan suspension differences?

Nice to see more options...

I was hoping that someone could shed some light on how the Lenz and Ventana FS 29er differ in regards to their suspension designs. Can anyone explain how similar or different they are? How do you think they compair? :confused:
 

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20.100 FR said:
post a pict of the rear dropout of the ventana to check if it has a horst link.

The lentz is a monoshock with a linkage to actuate the shock.
Ventana (unfortunately) does not make Horst Link bikes, only single pivot and single pivots with linkage actuated shocks like the El Capitan. So the two have the same basic suspension design, but there are undoubtedly subtle differences. I'd look more at the geometry and travel/weight differnces between the two. The Ventana has the extra inch of travel, and I'd bet it is heavier and most likely stiffer (although the Lenz is supposed to be plenty stiff itself).

Neither should be as chain tension/braking force neutral as a true FSR (Horst Link) bike, but both are supposed to ride pretty well nonetheless. Sherwood swears that he uses this design because he feels stiffness is more important than the inherent advantages of the FSR. I've never ridden one, but it seems many who have agree with him, while a few do not. Personally I'm holding out for a 29" Turner for now, but that Ventana is pretty sweet.
 

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No Turner for us!!

miles e said:
Ventana (unfortunately) does not make Horst Link bikes, only single pivot and single pivots with linkage actuated shocks like the El Capitan. So the two have the same basic suspension design, but there are undoubtedly subtle differences. I'd look more at the geometry and travel/weight differnces between the two. The Ventana has the extra inch of travel, and I'd bet it is heavier and most likely stiffer (although the Lenz is supposed to be plenty stiff itself).

Neither should be as chain tension/braking force neutral as a true FSR (Horst Link) bike, but both are supposed to ride pretty well nonetheless. Sherwood swears that he uses this design because he feels stiffness is more important than the inherent advantages of the FSR. I've never ridden one, but it seems many who have agree with him, while a few do not. Personally I'm holding out for a 29" Turner for now, but that Ventana is pretty sweet.
However Intense may make one in the future. For now my Sugar is just fine (and the price is right), It does not bob and I can keep up with my buddy on his Joker
 

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Ventana ...the new CRACK'n'FAIL

Will Lenz stand by his work? 5 of the guys I ride with have broken their Ventana bikes all at the weld of the main pivot. The last two Sherwood refused to replace. If a frame cracks at the weld that is a CRAFTMANSHIP issue. Sure the last 2 were just over 2 years old but, It broke at the weld. I have refrained from posting this but I would not buy any product that the manufacturer would not stand behind. I do not want to see any of you 29er guys get burned. Sherwood, I hope you read this and make good on your bad. I sure wish YETI would build us a 29er I have an ARC, ASR-sl and road project. Seth at YETI rocks when it comes to customer service and those boys need some props oh yeah....BUILD ME A 29ER

My KM kicks ASS took it to the Womble today WOW!
I can't wait for my Racer-X 29er to arrive
 

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willi said:
Will Lenz stand by his work?
This is a pic of my Leviathan with the NEW front triangle. Devin wasn't happy with the anodizing on the other frame. So he swapped me a new triangle. That IMO is standing by your product. He didn't even offer to discount the frame, he said he would build a new one. It was completely cosmetic, so I rode that front triangle for the past 6 months, I will soon be riding the new frame :)...



I have not heard anyone criticize Devin for not supporting his products. I do know that he has had frames break, but I haven't heard of anyone who has been disappointed with him supporting his products (a.k.a. he works out an amiable solution with his customers).
 

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Willi....

While I don't know you I think you're full of [email protected]#t. I ride with at least eight Ventana owners, all of which ride very technical, rocky trails at least four days a week in the riding season here in Montana. I have never seen or experianced a broken Ventana frame. I've heard of frames that were broken in warantee and all had them replaced. I know of stories of people breaking their frame out of warantee (3 years) and being replaced at a discounted price. You can not find a more overbuilt bike with better customer service. I've personally corresponded/talked with the owner. These qualities make for a rabid fan base. If your so confidant in your claims post pictures.
 

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Scibot

They were all chamuco frames out of Grapevine, TX. They all cracked around the weld, on the weld itself and why would I come on a forum I know Sherwood reads if I did not know what I was talking about. I was on rides with 3 of the guys when it happened. One of the frames that was not warranteed it took Sherwood around 6 months to get a new frame built. "full of s#@%" way to be creative you mental midget. I agree the frames are overbuilt, too bad the welds are having issues.

Pictures: ask Sherwood I believe he was sent each frame.
The last one I saw not only was it cracked on the front triangle at the main pivot but the either chainstay or seat stay was cracked completely in half on the drive side.
 

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willi said:
The last one I saw not only was it cracked on the front triangle at the main pivot but the either chainstay or seat stay was cracked completely in half on the drive side.
The seat stay was cracked in half AND the pivot weld failed? A broken weld and a catastophic failure in the stays leads the reader to believe that something other than build quality was at fault. My 2 cents.
 

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s

The gentleman riding it is 40+ and rides XC only no big drops and such. He is now on a Heckler due to Sherwoods lack of customer service. As a matter of fact every one of these guys moved on to other frames w/out a single problem.
 

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jl said:
This is a pic of my Leviathan with the NEW front triangle.
I may have to ammend my earlier statement. That is a damn sweet looking frame. I'd love to try both a Ventana and a Leviathan. Side by side, on the same day. For some reason, I thought Leviathan had one of those super huge pivots that goes around the BB shell. I understand the placement but I never saw an implementation that I liked.
 

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willi said:
They were all chamuco frames out of Grapevine, TX. They all cracked around the weld, on the weld itself and why would I come on a forum I know Sherwood reads if I did not know what I was talking about. I was on rides with 3 of the guys when it happened. One of the frames that was not warranteed it took Sherwood around 6 months to get a new frame built. "full of s#@%" way to be creative you mental midget. I agree the frames are overbuilt, too bad the welds are having issues.

Pictures: ask Sherwood I believe he was sent each frame.
The last one I saw not only was it cracked on the front triangle at the main pivot but the either chainstay or seat stay was cracked completely in half on the drive side.
You show up out of nowhere and start bagging on Ventana, a company with a generally flawless reputation and unequaled quality (at least in aluminum fabrication). This does indeed sound like a "full of s#@%" story.

Sorry, as a former Ventana owner myself, I find this very difficult to believe unless the bikes were being riden off the roof of a house or something.
 

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I sure wish Sherwood would come on here and give us a reason for the frames I have mentioned cracking at the weld on all frames mentioned as well as a salty I forgot about.

I was just warning everyone. It is good to have choices but, only if they are quality choices.

I only post when I have a point to make. I have not posted much, you are correct.

Fattirewilly- I can assure you all of these frames were ridden XC and all failed at the same place (weld of the main pivot). Maybe tubing is stronger than the weld, maybe mitering tolerances were off I am not a frame builder nor a metalergist (sp).

I did not mean to hijack this thread just informing of what I have seen happen lately to a good group of guys I ride with daily. I do feel passionatly about this matter and I am glad I was aware of these issues before I ordered my new 29er. The failure and subsequent lack of customer support did affect my buying decision and I wanted to pass this on for you to consider before buying your next frame...it is just information (that happens to be 100% accurate) take it or leave it .
 

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Extraordinary claims require extraodinary proof.

No offense but some guy with like 3 posts who starts ranting about Ventana not warranting 5 of his friends bikes just sounds fishy.

Here are the reasons:

The odds that one person actually has five friends who all have the same frame - and all frames fail in the same manner and all said frames are deserving of a warranty and denied are slim.

You didn't provide documentation: e-mails, letters, pictures, names, dates, etc.

Ventana/Sherwood has a super reputation in terms of quality and customer service. The guy does a good amount of business and if his frames failed so easily and were not warrantied - my brain tells me it'd be an issue we would have read about already. Sherwood already has distanced himself from Tony E for similar shady business practices.

----

So if you want to be taken seriously - come back with a bit more info - any bit of documentation would help your cause. I'm highly skeptical but if like $7500-$10000 worth of equipment failed due to a manufacturing defect - mtbr is good place to make your case and help get it resolved.
 

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BB pivot

I may have to ammend my earlier statement. That is a damn sweet looking frame. I'd love to try both a Ventana and a Leviathan. Side by side, on the same day. For some reason, I thought Leviathan had one of those super huge pivots that goes around the BB shell. I understand the placement but I never saw an implementation that I liked.
I think the other Lenz bikes use the pivot that goes around the BB, for some reason they don't use it on the Leviathan, I'd love to know why.

Eric
 

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enelnelson said:
I think the other Lenz bikes use the pivot that goes around the BB, for some reason they don't use it on the Leviathan, I'd love to know why.

Eric
Has to do with the increased Chain Stay length required to make it work. The 29er CS will already be fairly long due to wheel size....

Imagine how ultra cool it would be to run a SS Leviathan though...
 

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Pictures would be nice, I'm not saying they didn't fail, but I have beat the SNOT out of a el chamuco, in a lot more than XC riding, with zero problems aside a needed replacement swingarm from crash damage.

If 6 of your friends have had weld failures in one area in 2 years with one manufacturer that would probably be the worst failure rate of any bike ever. So to substantiate something like that I'd need to see some pretty good evidence, esp. since it would be the first I've heard of any serious issue with a ventana, and their customer service is held in very high reguard.

So at least some pictures would be good, I seriously doubt that out of 6 frame failures no pictures exist, I know that if I broke a bike at a weld and had a chainstay split in half I'd have a whole roll of pictures.
 
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