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Happy, in the woods.
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Discussion Starter #1
At a local trail where I work I've been experimenting with leaf and debris removal as way to help control moisture and thus the durability of the tread. I haven't done any scientific studies yet, but so far it seems that getting leafy debris off the trial lets the surface of the trail dry faster.

The other day I helped some friends with work on a another trial in the area. We rebenched a section of trail and as I was ready to move on they were all "wait, we have to put leaves back on the trail". Not wanting to be the contrarian on another's turf I sheepishly asked why. They said the leaves help absorb the water that would otherwise be absorbed into the trail surface. This is the exact opposite of what I've experienced, yet I didn't say anything because I didn't want to alienate anyone and they seemed so sure of this fact that disputing it would be as laughable as telling them the world was flat.

What's your take on this situation?
 

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When I first started helping with trailwork I thought removing leaves and other debris was stupid. Now ten years later I think it is one of the most important things we do. Your friends are correct, leaves do absorb water.That keeps the trail wet,like a wet blanket. We have a couple of trails that we will rake one year and not the next, the trail tread is in better shape when it has been raked. IMBA has a great book on trail building and I am sure this topic is in the book.
Now go and tell your friends there world if flat.:)
 

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Terrain Sculptor
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Kind of a Catch 22 situation here. Most of the ground is gravel and the summers are very dry. A little organic material on the trail in late spring and summer helps to keep the track from getting too loose. Fall & winter is very wet and the leaves are very slick and turn to mud.
We also have trails in heavy canopy as well as clear cuts. The trails in the trees will stay wet after months of no rain and the clear cut trails will dry out completely in a few hours of sunshine.

So, I'll rake off a trail in the fall after the major leaf fall and then try to leave small debris on in the spring.
 

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Happy, in the woods.
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Discussion Starter #4
I couldn't be certain I read it in the imba book, so that's why I didn't say anything earlier. But when I got home the other day the first place I looked for a reference was in the trails solutions book. Might have missed it, but I didn't see anything in there on this topic.

Our soils here have very little gravel and are primarily clay. The drier I can keep the tread surface the better. I've raked in the past, and it took me days and days of effort (with a few blisters on the hands) to clear the trail. The other day I borrowed a huge 65cc commercial grade backpack style blower and cleared almost 6 miles of trail by my self. I could roll a football sized rock off the trail with that thing. no kidding. Those backpack blowers are awesome!
 

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The Voice of Reason
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our trails are primarily sand. we let the leaves and pine straw stay and let it break down. it does help with erosion when we get torrential rains, which is every day in the summer. the only time we rake a trail is when it's new.
 

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I need skills
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+1 Back pack leaf blower

Our trails are mostly in hardwood forest and some pine plantation. We blow the leaves off everything. Definitely helps the trails dry out and stay defined for riders. We haven't used a rake in 6 years,

The only spots we don't blow are two sandy areas (we also believe the additional organic matter helps trail surface).

One person can clear about 4 miles in less than 2 hours. We set up shuttles, carry sig bottles of gas, and are able to clear about 13 miles of trail in a morning (4 people).

The Green Bay folks gave us a great tip on back pack blowers, they work great for "building" trail. The first person through a new section is the one carrying the blower. As the other poster said, they can move rocks. The blowers also clears wrist sized branches and the layer of decomposing leaves off the ground. Greatly speeds up the process.

With the exception of sandy soil, I agree with the OP on leaves.
 

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Terrain Sculptor
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Never tried a backpack blower. I'm going to guess the home version doesn't cut it and I need an industrial version.
 

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Most of our trails are sandy and we leave the leaves to break down into organic matter to help the soil retain moisture and build structure.

However, we have a trail that is on a clay loam and that benefits from blowing the leaves off because without the leaves we get many benefits:

1. The trail dries out quicker after a rainy or wet spell.
2. the drains don't clog up as quickly.
3. The muck and mire is reduced because when leaves break down they turn into composted organic matter.

The same stuff we need to remove when building a new trail is the same stuff leaf litter becomes, creating a soft mushy absorbent trail surface. During a heavy rain the organic duff runs down the trail and settles into the berms and low spots creating black mucky spots.

Mineral soil is what you want for trails, it compacts and stays firm while also shedding water.

Organic soil is what you want for flower beds, it's soft and friable, which allows the roots to spread out and flourish while also retaining moisture for growth.
 

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I just spent the whole day blowing leaves off of bike trails.

The dirt is mostly heavy clay with lots and lots of rocks. It definitely dries faster when clear of leaves.

Due to the mature forest over most of the park, there is very little undergrowth. It's hard to find the trail in daylight. The trail isn't rideable at night with leaf cover. I know the trail very well, and I can't stay on it.

This time of year, any after work ride is going to be a night ride.

Walt
 

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Builder of Trails
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Yeah, back pack leaf blowers work, but being able to ride a bike while blowing leaves off the trail is even better!



D
 

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Builder of Trails
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And my experience with leaves on the trail is that they hold moisture and prevent the trail from drying. I don't have experience in all climates and with all soil types, so my experience is certainly biased.

I have noticed in WI that when I blew the leaves off the trails as much as possible before the snow fell that the trails seemed to dry out more quickly after snow melt.

Disclaimer: YMMV.

D
 

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Amen on the leaf Blower been doing trail work and maintence for 10 yrs A commercial leaf blower was the first thing I bought, great for building new trail... blow it off the sun starts working too dry it up and other riders spot the trail quicker .. too pack it down...
 

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since 4/10/2009
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Definitely with clay soils, leaf cover spells trouble.

On sandy stuff in MI, the deciduous leaves just tended to blow away or get crushed by bike tires.

Here in E. TX, it's mostly pine straw. I've spent most of my time here inside the past 8months and out in the prairies before that. So I haven't been able to see how the annual cycle works on trails covered with pine straw. It's been nothing terribly obvious when I've been out riding, for sure. But there's not nearly the huge influx of leaves down here, anyway. Even my sweetgum (the only large deciduous tree in my wooded lot) is still mostly green.
 

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Terrain Sculptor
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dburatti said:
Yeah, back pack leaf blowers work, but being able to ride a bike while blowing leaves off the trail is even better!



D
My son is now trying to figure out how to do that with chainsaws. He'll do it too. He built a Trebuchet that will lob a lazyboy chair across the highway when he was 12.
 

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The Voice of Reason
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we have lots of pine straw and live oak leaves. they get super slippery when they are dry. when they are wet the break down faster and supplement the bare sand. both trees dump their leaves/needles twice a year, once in the fall and again in the spring. there are lots of bigger leafed oaks on my other trail. they make the trail disappear so i have to either rake it or ride it a bunch.

what part of east texas? i'm in nw florida so we share a lot of the same terrain and soils.
 

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the mountian is within
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When i used to maintain a 5mi trail-i left the leaves on all winter(WVa hills)then on April 1st or so-would walk the loop with a big bamboo leaf rake and do all that were left. I though it would keep the freeze/thaw cycle from making ruts. Heavy rainfall comes all spring-and this seemed to help this system. But-not many folks rode in the wintertime.So im not sure what works. I will do some sample sections of different grades this winter to check.Always fun in the woods!
Bz
 

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Happy, in the woods.
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Discussion Starter #19
In my opinion its not the freeze-thawa cycle that makes ruts, but tire compression on a soft tread surface or skidding/spinning out while heavy braking or climbing caused by a lack of traction, which in part is caused by moisture (or wet leaves) creating a slick surface. Granted, surface heave due to freezing will loosen the surface to some extent, but if the tread is drier or well compacted before the freeze sets in the heaving force will be diminished.

In areas of erosion concern do you think the leaves retard sedimentation of the runoff during the spring rains?
 

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Leaves? What are leaves? That's certainly not an issue at all in Western Colorado. Sounds like backpack blowers are quite the ticket in deciduous environments, though.
 
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