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Genius
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a reminder to leash your dogs guys. I saw a guy carrying his dog back to the car yesterday after it got hit by a biker in the SFH. The dog could not walk under its own power. It was also not on a leash. Don't think it cant happen to you or your dog. :mad:
 

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Poor dog. It is the rider's responsibility to ensure the ability to stop for wandering animals, small children, cops, etc. Someone ought to put a brown recluse in that rider's chamois.
 

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Good point. I've succumb to sticking to wide jeep trails in my area when I run my dog. The trails are banned for vehicles and so far all I ever encounter is an occasional jogger. I totally stay off the single tracks where I know there are other riders. Sorry it happened to them, hopefully the dog will be ok.
 

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Moonshine Willie said:
Poor dog. It is the rider's responsibility to ensure the ability to stop for wandering animals, small children, cops, etc. Someone ought to put a brown recluse in that rider's chamois.
wrong

it is the dog owner's responsibility to keep the animal on a leash. biker didn't break the law, the dog owner did.

it is sad to hear that the dog was injured, but it is wrong to blame the rider.
 

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Genius
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Calhoun said:
wrong

it is the dog owner's responsibility to keep the animal on a leash. biker didn't break the law, the dog owner did.

it is sad to hear that the dog was injured, but it is wrong to blame the rider.
Yes. This is true. Its actually against the city ordinance in the NFS and SFH to not leash your animal. There are signs at every trail head stating this. There are lots of blind corners, blind hills, tall brush, and huge boulders that line the trails. We all see many people that let there dogs "run wild" out there and don't keep them under control. Accidents will happen, but if you let your animal stray on and off the trail or get many yards in front or behind you, your putting your animal and others in harms way.
 

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Fair enough about the leash ordinance (and too bad—dogs need to run free every now and again. Just my opinion.). Nevertheless, there is a moral imperative, or there should be, that says every rider should be in control and able to stop should the unexpected pop up. That dog could have just as well been a kid or an elderly person or someone having a seizure. While It's sometime inconvenient and not as much fun to ride in total control (believe me, I love to ride out of control sometimes and wish I could do it more), I can't help but believe it's incumbent upon riders to be able to deal with any situation that may crop up as safely as possible, such as a dog running onto the trail or some type of endangered species showing up unannounced. That said, my brown recluse comment earlier was probably too harsh. I agree. We don't know the whole story. Maybe the rider did everything they could and it still ended badly.

I guess my point is, and the reason I chimed in in the first place, is every incident like this reinforces the bicyclists-are-a-menace mentality and stereotype that limits our access and fosters the type of ill-will we sometimes see exhibited by some non-riders.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Thanks for everyone's indulgence.
 

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Hey, wait up!
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Moonshine Willie said:
Fair enough about the leash ordinance (and too bad-dogs need to run free every now and again. Just my opinion.). Nevertheless, there is a moral imperative, or there should be, that says every rider should be in control and able to stop should the unexpected pop up. That dog could have just as well been a kid or an elderly person or someone having a seizure. While It's sometime inconvenient and not as much fun to ride in total control (believe me, I love to ride out of control sometimes and wish I could do it more), I can't help but believe it's incumbent upon riders to be able to deal with any situation that may crop up as safely as possible, such as a dog running onto the trail or some type of endangered species showing up unannounced. That said, my brown recluse comment earlier was probably too harsh. I agree. We don't know the whole story. Maybe the rider did everything they could and it still ended badly.

I guess my point is, and the reason I chimed in in the first place, is every incident like this reinforces the bicyclists-are-a-menace mentality and stereotype that limits our access and fosters the type of ill-will we sometimes see exhibited by some non-riders.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Thanks for everyone's indulgence.
The thing about the "unexpected" is that it is, well, unexpected.

On a recent ride I encountered two separate sets of unleashed dogs running well in advance of their person. I don't know them or their dogs and don't have a clue how the situation is going to resolve. Dogs can charge, dart, or who knows what. I come to a complete foot on the ground stop and wait until dogs and walker have made their way past.

I love dogs. I have quite a few adorable fur children. I do not take them out on the bike trails.

..
 

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High Alpine Adventure
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LCdaveH said:
The thing about the "unexpected" is that it is, well, unexpected.
..
That's why we need to "anticipate" the unexpected... don't ride your bike on autopilot, but be prepared. That's why I think a bell helps. If you use it, it get's you into a habit of thinking about what may be around that blind corner and slow down a bit.

Now image that dog isn't a dog but it is an 8 year old kid running ahead of their parents. If you ride a "vehicle" you need to be able to control it... bottom line.
 

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Genius
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
DaGoat said:
That's why we need to "anticipate" the unexpected... don't ride your bike on autopilot, but be prepared. That's why I think a bell helps. If you use it, it get's you into a habit of thinking about what may be around that blind corner and slow down a bit.

Now image that dog isn't a dog but it is an 8 year old kid running ahead of their parents. If you ride a "vehicle" you need to be able to control it... bottom line.
True. Which is why I don't let my kid run out ahead of me. She is always within arms reach and she just happens to be turning 8 in a couple months.:thumbsup:

As for myself, I always stop for others, whether they are on foot, bike or horse. I'd like to think I am the most courteous rider out, just like a lot of us do and probably are. Yet, I still have run over snakes, rabbits, hit a dog and knocked bars/shoulders with other riders who in my estimation were not riding out of control either. But these are the dangers indicative to a multi-use multi-directional trail that has a good hundred blind spots in the middle of "steep" climbs and descents. Its very easy to hit 30+mph up here. I try not to get above 15mph, but even at that it still takes 30 feet to stop on a downhill.

Just be careful guys.
 

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Good points and discussion. Local ordinance does allow for dogs to be off-leash when they are being trained. I am allowed to train my dogs legally off-leash, whether it be search and rescue, for retrieving, etc, but it is also my responsibility to have my canines under control and not be a hazard to others.
 

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Bandolero
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Dog & Butterfly

DaGoat said:
That's why we need to "anticipate" the unexpected... don't ride your bike on autopilot, but be prepared. That's why I think a bell helps. If you use it, it get's you into a habit of thinking about what may be around that blind corner and slow down a bit.

Now image that dog isn't a dog but it is an 8 year old kid running ahead of their parents. If you ride a "vehicle" you need to be able to control it... bottom line.
Kids don't normally have a leash attached to them. Nor do they normally attack and maul you.

I understand the need to be aware of what's on the trails but the responsibility to control an animal lies on the owner. After an encounter with a dog owner who got upset with *FOREVERBANNED* because he didn't yield to an un-leashed furry child, I started carrying a copy of the ABQ Heart Ordinance in my pack. If I'm confronted by an angry owner, I reference it and offer to call 311 or the APD non-emergency number at 242-COPS(2677).

It's the two-legged animals that cause the most problems.
 

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Single Speed Junkie
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nmtim said:
What if your dogs are smarter than some Bandoleros/FOO members? Can they be off leash?
Only on certain days... What days those are I'm not sure.

Back to the topic at hand. Striking wildlife or pets on the trail sucks. I've had encounters with both deer and skunk on the trail. The deer actually got up and t-boned the bike and I was unable to get their insurance information. It is unfortunate that sh** happens, but it is more how one deals with the incident after the fact.
 

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Village Dirtbag
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Moonshine Willie said:
Fair enough about the leash ordinance (and too bad-dogs need to run free every now and again. Just my opinion.). Nevertheless, there is a moral imperative, or there should be, that says every rider should be in control and able to stop should the unexpected pop up. That dog could have just as well been a kid or an elderly person or someone having a seizure. While It's sometime inconvenient and not as much fun to ride in total control (believe me, I love to ride out of control sometimes and wish I could do it more), I can't help but believe it's incumbent upon riders to be able to deal with any situation that may crop up as safely as possible, such as a dog running onto the trail or some type of endangered species showing up unannounced. That said, my brown recluse comment earlier was probably too harsh. I agree. We don't know the whole story. Maybe the rider did everything they could and it still ended badly.

I guess my point is, and the reason I chimed in in the first place, is every incident like this reinforces the bicyclists-are-a-menace mentality and stereotype that limits our access and fosters the type of ill-will we sometimes see exhibited by some non-riders.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Thanks for everyone's indulgence.
This. I agree dogs need to run free now & then, too. I think most unleashed dogs are probably pretty friendly, too- otherwise the owner probably wouldn't let them off the leash or out in public. We need to ride in control & make ourselves announced to prevent the reputation of being dangerous. Stuff happens though. Hell- I also had a friend who once hit a deer riding on a trail!

But, most of the time dogs, children, and the elderly should be kept on leashes when out in public ;)
 

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the one thing I hate more than a loose dog on the trail or anywhere else, is their owner's obnoxious sense of self entitlement.
 

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Uh... shouldn't this be on a hiking message board? Wouldn't it be impossible to ride while tethered to a dog?

Regardless, at least in Santa Fe, no one hikes with a dog on a leash. It defeats the whole purpose of taking your animal into the forest. I personally have no problem with it either. I only go as fast as I can see on crowded trails near town. What I mean by that is I can always come to a stop within my field of view. As a result I have never hit anything or anyone while riding and I have been doing this since the Reagan administration.

It is all about experience and common sense, ride conservatively around population centers and let it rip out in Cochiti or way out on RV. I would venture to guess that most negative bike on hiker/dog encounters occur with newb riders who entered the sport after the advent of hydraulic discs. As great as the new technology is it can provide novices with a false sense of security.
 

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Bandolero
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Scooby Too

nmtim said:
What if your dogs are smarter than some Bandoleros/FOO members? Can they be off leash?
I've seen your dogs. They drink as much beer as any bando.
 
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