Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Just the tip!
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just curious why so many saddle manufacturers insist on making saddles with kevlar corners? True that kevlar has great tensile strength, but it is not cut or abrasion resistant which is what saddles need to be.

A kevlar "bulletproof" vest cannot stop a knife. Motorcycle armor is leather not kevlar.

I've ruined several kevlar cornered saddles on minor crashes and others with just the wear from my legs brushing against while getting off the back. Why the 10+ year reign of this inappropriately applied material?

:madman:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
HHMTB said:
A kevlar "bulletproof" vest cannot stop a knife. Motorcycle armor is leather not kevlar.
You're wrong on both counts.

A few people I know who ride motorbikes have kevlar lined jeans instead of leather pants. A lot of motorbike gloves have kevlar reinforced knuckles.

here's some of the jeans
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.co...=80003&zmam=88421133&zmas=1&zmac=2&zmap=17963

some gloves
http://www.amazon.com/MOTORCYCLE-GLOVES-CARBON-KEVLAR-LEATHER/dp/B000VDZH22

Also bullet proof vests will stop a knife as much as they'll stop a bullet. Remember a kevlar vest will only stop a few low velocity bullets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_vest

The downside to kevlar is that it's not as flexible as leather. So it wouldn't be good for a pair of gloves for example.
 

·
Maaaaan
Joined
·
4,259 Posts
Kevlar will not stop a knife. "Bullet Proof" vests have "knife plates" in the breast area.
These plates are: ceramic, steel or aluminum.

Kevlar melts when heated by friction, during a highway speed crash.
(I know that one from experience.)

Kevlar tires are more puncture prone than a 66tpi aramid fiber casing.
Kevlar beads are ad hype as well. Aramid fiber beads are light, folding and much cheaper to make as well.

I almost forgot to add. Wiki is not necessarily a good source of info. Anyone can edit an article to say what they want it to say. I mean literally anybody.
 

·
the test dummy
Joined
·
3,487 Posts
Ericmopar said:
I almost forgot to add. Wiki is not necessarily a good source of info. Anyone can edit an article to say what they want it to say. I mean literally anybody.
oooooohhhhhhh so true failed a school project because of that
 

·
Stay thirsty my friends
Joined
·
885 Posts
HHMTB said:
Just curious why so many saddle manufacturers insist on making saddles with kevlar corners? True that kevlar has great tensile strength, but it is not cut or abrasion resistant which is what saddles need to be.

A kevlar "bulletproof" vest cannot stop a knife. Motorcycle armor is leather not kevlar.

I've ruined several kevlar cornered saddles on minor crashes and others with just the wear from my legs brushing against while getting off the back. Why the 10+ year reign of this inappropriately applied material?

:madman:
Oh so wrong on every count, Kevlar is exceptionally cut and abrasion resistant...only metal is better. Where are you getting this information?

As for no knife resistance...ya sure.

 

·
Elitest thrill junkie
Joined
·
38,873 Posts
Ericmopar said:
Kevlar will not stop a knife. "Bullet Proof" vests have "knife plates" in the breast area.
These plates are: ceramic, steel or aluminum.
No, the plates that go in the ballistic vests boost the ability of the vest to stand up to higher caliber/higher velocity rounds. That's why they put those in there. Whether or not it stops a knife is secondary. I've worn said ballistic vests. As was said above, a 'usual" ballistic vest will stand up to a few low caliber or standard velocity rounds. 9mm, 45, .38, etc. A more high end vest may stand up to some magnum rounds, but forget about stopping rifle or assult-rifle rounds. The plates give them the ability to stop some rifle rounds or higher power rounds. Not that they'll stop everything, but the purpose of the plates is to boost the ability of the vest to stop rounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,671 Posts
Ericmopar said:
Kevlar will not stop a knife. "Bullet Proof" vests have "knife plates" in the breast area.
These plates are: ceramic, steel or aluminum.

Kevlar melts when heated by friction, during a highway speed crash.
(I know that one from experience.)

Kevlar tires are more puncture prone than a 66tpi aramid fiber casing.
Kevlar beads are ad hype as well. Aramid fiber beads are light, folding and much cheaper to make as well.

I almost forgot to add. Wiki is not necessarily a good source of info. Anyone can edit an article to say what they want it to say. I mean literally anybody.
He he,
Kevlar is just a trademark name for aramid.

Kevlar is good stuff. On saddles it is not indestructible, but its better than not having it there, IMO, based on the one WTB Kevlar cornered saddle I have owned.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,759 Posts
My experience has been that my Kevlar cornered saddles armored the saddle well, and looked as good as new much longer than my non-kevlar ones. I was disappointed when the last WTB saddle I bought didn't have them but I must admit it's held up well. Maybe I am crashing less or more gracefully anyways.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,671 Posts
sprunghunt said:
You're wrong on both counts.

A few people I know who ride motorbikes have kevlar lined jeans instead of leather pants. A lot of motorbike gloves have kevlar reinforced knuckles.

here's some of the jeans
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.co...=80003&zmam=88421133&zmas=1&zmac=2&zmap=17963

some gloves
http://www.amazon.com/MOTORCYCLE-GLOVES-CARBON-KEVLAR-LEATHER/dp/B000VDZH22

Also bullet proof vests will stop a knife as much as they'll stop a bullet. Remember a kevlar vest will only stop a few low velocity bullets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_vest

The downside to kevlar is that it's not as flexible as leather. So it wouldn't be good for a pair of gloves for example
.
Good post, but kevlar is used for gloves as well, for people who work with knives, and for motorcycle gloves also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,671 Posts
Ericmopar said:
Kevlar will not stop a knife. "Bullet Proof" vests have "knife plates" in the breast area.
These plates are: ceramic, steel or aluminum.

Kevlar melts when heated by friction, during a highway speed crash.
(I know that one from experience.)


Kevlar tires are more puncture prone than a 66tpi aramid fiber casing.
Kevlar beads are ad hype as well. Aramid fiber beads are light, folding and much cheaper to make as well.

I almost forgot to add. Wiki is not necessarily a good source of info. Anyone can edit an article to say what they want it to say. I mean literally anybody.
Kevlar is used in fireproof nomex clothing and also as an asbestos replacement. I question if you could really melt it in a crash, or if it was a plastic coating or something that melted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
smilinsteve said:
Good post, but kevlar is used for gloves as well, for people who work with knives, and for motorcycle gloves also.
I posted a link to some motorbike gloves with kevlar armour plates on the knuckles. I used to have some MTB gloves with kevlar padding on the top that were similar
I've never seen completely kevlar gloves but I see you can get woven work gloves here:

http://www2.dupont.com/Personal_Protection/en_US/products/kevlar/cut_products.html

so I stand corrected but I don't see any close fitting kevlar gloves that you'd use on a motorbike or mtb.

I've also had a WTB saddle with kevlar sides for years now and haven't seen any tears.
 

·
Five is right out
Joined
·
3,176 Posts
insanitylevel9 said:
who cares. really were arguing over if a bullet proof vest is knight proof. i think we can just agree that Kevlar is not a good seat material and let this thread die
I think it's quite obvious that bulletproof vests do not provide adequate protection against mounted knights. They're not designed to stop swords or lances.
 

·
Dirt Deviant
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
womble said:
I think it's quite obvious that bulletproof vests do not provide adequate protection against mounted knights. They're not designed to stop swords or lances.
They may also hold up to battle axe attacks too, if the velocity is under 1400 fps.
 

·
Just the tip!
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Man, that veered off topic quickly! :)

FWIW, I've cut kevlar thread quite easily with a pocket knife. I've cut woven kevlar fabric with a pair of scissors. In both cases they were harder to do with than regular thread/fabric, but it wasn't a struggle by any stretch of the imagination. I suppose you could build an "knight" (hilarious, Womble) proof vest if you used enough layers of kevlar, but is that really the best way to do it?

The stuff is amazing in tension though and that's how it stops a bullet. Bullets penetrate due to kinetic energy overcoming the tensile strength of the material it hits. Kevlar has lots of tensile strength and thereby stops the bullet before the weave fails. Knives penetrate by cutting/abrading/shearing. That video up above, there's definitely a plate in that.

So back to the real question, how many have had good luck with kevlar cornered saddles? Do the people with positive experiences with kevlar saddles outnumber those of us with negative experiences?

http://www.aerostich.com/files/readings/2001Catalog/straightstory.html
"In pure, undiluted form, Kevlar® is lighter than nylon and has greater tensile strength. It won't melt like nylon after touching a hot muffler (or from the friction-generated heat of a high speed slide on hot pavement). Unfortunately, it's expensive and difficult to work with, which limits design and construction possibilities. And believe it or not, pure Kevlar® fabric actually is much less abrasion-resistant than Cordura nylon. Kevlar® fibers have far less elasticity than Cordura® nylon fibers, a crucial handicap in a crash. Even the smoothest pavements have a rough aggregate surface that causes abrasive pulling. Nylon's stretchy fibers will elongate, ride over the surface irregularities, then snap back into the weave (like a tree bending in a strong wind), but Kevlar® fibers quickly reach their tensile limit and snap."
 

·
Bike Geek
Joined
·
735 Posts
kevlar

I would rather have a kevlar cornered saddle when my bike bike is thrown in a crash than no kevlar corners. And I would rather have a kevlar vest when someone tries to stab me than no vest at all.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top