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Keep in mind that if your talking about the races I think (Pats & Great Glenn) there are some tough punchy climbs which demand some high intensity efforts to get up, these my be the problem on a Keto fueling strategy. Not to mention that IMO if your fueling with protein the digestive requirements are way more taxing on your body that a simple sugar (carbohydrate) fueling strategy. I have not gone into ketosis for extended periods and tried to fuel and race that way but I have done a lot of fueling test to include high fat and fat with protein strategies and each time I do I induce a horrible bonk. But that is just me, sample size of 1...

Give me a shout sometime and we will do a “social distancing” ride, especially after the trails open up in NH we should go do some pre-race testing! I hope you and yours are well John.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Hey Jesse,

Hope all is well with you and your daughters. I think you're right and integrating some carbs into my diet, particularly for training and race day is going to be key. The thread has been a good learning exercise for me to understand fueling and how this all works with different intensity levels. Although it sounds like Keto isn't going to work for high intensity efforts, it has been great every day diet to get my weight back in check, at least to improve on last year.

Yes, let's ride when the trails open up. At this point, I'd be surprised if Pats isn't canceled. I hear CBCC is on the verge of canceling - I hope that isn't true. Do you ride Bond Brook? Maybe we can meet there for some rides.
 

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calories in/out works for people with self control and people who understand what healthy food is and what caloric density is. it's why gastric bypass works. it's why anorexic people die. i eat 4-5k+ calories a day because i bike 20hrs a week. if i stop riding 20hrs a week, my 'calories out' go way the hell down and if i continue to eat 5k calories a day my weight goes way the hell up. if i want to lose weight, i eat more potatoes and carrots and green things, maybe eat a little less of them and do more fasted riding. if i want to fuel a lot and gain weight while bulking/lifting at the gym and make sure i never bonk while on the bike i eat more pasta and bread and protein.

part of training on a bike, whether it's at the pointy end or not, is to train your body to deal with nutrition. that means training it to be able to take on and process tons of carbs while racing at high intensity, but also training in a glycogen depleted state to force your body to ride faster in that state and to build bigger glycogen stores for next time so you don't have to go there again. all the science is there for that stuff, and to discount it as only applicable to a select genetically gut gifted is wrong.
 

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Hey Jesse,

Hope all is well with you and your daughters. I think you're right and integrating some carbs into my diet, particularly for training and race day is going to be key. The thread has been a good learning exercise for me to understand fueling and how this all works with different intensity levels. Although it sounds like Keto isn't going to work for high intensity efforts, it has been great every day diet to get my weight back in check, at least to improve on last year.

Yes, let's ride when the trails open up. At this point, I'd be surprised if Pats isn't canceled. I hear CBCC is on the verge of canceling - I hope that isn't true. Do you ride Bond Brook? Maybe we can meet there for some rides.
I do ride BB, have you heard of the trail conditions there (those trails seem to hold water). I have been riding in Bath and these trails are in good condition as long as you are willing to walk around some small swampy areas.

My daughters are doing great! I have been getting them out on some long road rides (30-40 miles) on their mountain bikes this spring.

I really hope Carrabassett doesn’t cancel!! That is a great race and I know the guys who put it on and they are great people.

Give me a shout anytime if you want to get together and ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
BB isn't open yet, but I'm thinking it could be soon with a good drying week of sun, warmth and wind. Sounds like your daughters are doing great, 30-40 miles is impressive for kids on a mtn bike! Looking forward to getting out, let's stay in touch and ride when conditions are ready.
 

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Started on a Keto diet end of last December and so far it's been great. I've lost weight and energy levels are very stable, more so than using carbs as energy.

Anyone here with Keto diet / endurance racing experiences? Signed up for two races this year (single speed category), one is a 24hr race - approx. 9 miles/900ft elevation per lap.
Here is a link to a multi-year long discussion about this topic going on over in the nutrition forum.
https://forums.mtbr.com/nutrition-hydration/riding-ketogenic-diet-whos-doing-910379.html

I've been doing the keto thing for 2.5yrs now. Its pretty cool to see how much more info is coming available now in the cycling world regarding this topic. Back when I was researching the move it was no where near as common as it is now. I gleaned a good bit of my info from the ultra running crowd as best I could.

I don't have the time to get into it here at the moment, but a lot of my info was chronicled over in the nutrition thread. For me...my discovery was that the hype was pretty real. I've been able to head out on a 3 to 5 hr group road ride 'fasted' and not need to eat anything (other than my water and hydration solution). I mention road ride, because there are noticeable punchy moments during the effort. All that said, I found my best solution was to consume a hammer gel pack early in the ride and that would allow me to have access to high-end glucose base energy, but it would be completely burned off by the time I got back home (fully in ketosis).

Lately, I've not been riding as much but I can tell my body has complete access to the duality (glucose/ketosis) I have created. I can tell pretty easily when I'm in and out of ketosis. And my move back and forth (for every day life) is pretty simple and quick (when I end up with a little too many carbs..i.e. occasional hamburger bun, or too many sweet potatoes, etc..) All that said, I prolly live in ketosis 80% of the time as a life-style when I'm not riding/training as much.

Cheers,
CJB
 

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I've struggled with my weight all my life, and it's safe to say that I've tried a lot of diets. Only this diet helped me: Custom Keto Diet Video
The only diet that I managed to adhere to, and the weight began to decline.
Unlike other diets, in which I feel hungry all day and constantly think about food, this diet completely eliminated this, I never feel hungry with this way of eating!
I am using my personalized diet plan for 4 weeks and I have lost 14 pounds, which is pretty incredible actually. it's amazing to watch my body turn into something I'm really proud of and not something I've always tried to hide.
I would definitely recommend anyone trying to lose weight to try these customized diet plans as they have really been a godsend for me.
 

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Anyone follow the Vegan Cyclist on the YouTubes? Pretty sure he's a keto dude. May be a good resource?
 

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your not going to get much in the way of fats from plants ..... oh yay I'm going to have Avocado for the 100th time today!

Keto is fairly limiting to begin with then cutting it down even more by being an idiot umm Vegan isn't going to help
 

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your not going to get much in the way of fats from plants ..... oh yay I'm going to have Avocado for the 100th time today!

Keto is fairly limiting to begin with then cutting it down even more by being an idiot umm Vegan isn't going to help



2 avocados have more fat than one serving of steak.
 

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It's possible to be keto vegan but it would be very difficult. If you start following the vegan blogs or vegan "experts", they generally encourage lots of fruits and very little fat. Even olive oil is discouraged by some vegans as they believe there is some sort of scientific revisionism about olive oil being good for the heart. And vegans generally are not as fearful of sugar as keto folks. High fat and high sugar do not mix well. How many advocados a day does someone want to eat?

On the other hand, the keto community is severely anti sugar. Some are even afraid of fruit. And they have their own revisionism through their claims that saturated fat is good for you and this information has been suppressed by some fort of medical/food industry conspiracy.

Folks, just avoid extreme diets. Eat food that is that is fresh rather than comes in a box. It's not that complicated. I have done both vegan and keto and they do not outperform something sensible like a mediterranean diet both in terms of weight loss and sports performance. Extreme diets "work" because they are just indirect ways of implementing calorie restriction. But if you eat a whole food diet with lots of fiber, water, and sufficient protein that is low in calorie density, it achieves the same thing and is a lot healthier. See the diet videos by Dylan Johnson or Will Girling. Sensible, moderate, and science based.
 

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Dylan Johnson has some good information about this that's directly relevant to mountain bike racers.

Qualification: I've used intermittent fasting, as well as completing a 5-day water fast in order to lose weight. In my opinion the Keto diet is a fad diet that's a perversion of what you should be doing to incur ketosis: fasting. That said, I'm against fasted training as Dylan Johnson and others prove this has negative effects.

Entering ketosis while fasting is good. Your body digests and re-generates degenerated cells, and cleans out your liver. Everyone reading this thread should try a 48-72 hour fast for this healthy reason. However you should fuel your body for training, and carbs are the best fuel for racing. This is in line with science.


 

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I like Dylan Johnson's vid series on the YT's. Science-based and the kid can crush it on course.
 
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