DT bearings can sometimes become stiff over time but my guess is that the feeling of speed you’re getting is from the wheels being laced and tensioned correctly.
Keeping wheels fast
Hey guys,
So I've just got some new We Are One Union wheels with DT Swiss 350 hubs (their dope).
One thing I've noticed is how quick these wheels are and I feel like the fresh hubs have something to do with it. Ive come from a DT aluminum set with DT Swiss 350's to the WAO's and the wheel weight difference is minimal (2-6 grams per wheel, alum 28 hole, WAO's 32 hole) however the speed is night and day different between the two in a straight line.
My question is how do I upkeep the hubs to maintain this speed? My old 350s were regularly greased (the star ratchets anyway) but they weren't this quick. Note the grease I use is the DT Swiss stuff.
I did note something Ed Masters said in an interview about they way they greased the hubs to make the wheels spin for days but what is it and how do I do it is what I'm after. Is it as simple as regularly greasing the ratchet and bearings only? Is there other greases I could be using that are better suited to what I am after?
What tips and tricks have you got for me? All feedback is appreciated!
Jay
So I've just got some new We Are One Union wheels with DT Swiss 350 hubs (their dope).
One thing I've noticed is how quick these wheels are and I feel like the fresh hubs have something to do with it. Ive come from a DT aluminum set with DT Swiss 350's to the WAO's and the wheel weight difference is minimal (2-6 grams per wheel, alum 28 hole, WAO's 32 hole) however the speed is night and day different between the two in a straight line.
My question is how do I upkeep the hubs to maintain this speed? My old 350s were regularly greased (the star ratchets anyway) but they weren't this quick. Note the grease I use is the DT Swiss stuff.
I did note something Ed Masters said in an interview about they way they greased the hubs to make the wheels spin for days but what is it and how do I do it is what I'm after. Is it as simple as regularly greasing the ratchet and bearings only? Is there other greases I could be using that are better suited to what I am after?
What tips and tricks have you got for me? All feedback is appreciated!
Jay
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tryAny new hubs I get first thing I do is clean out the grease (or lack thereof) from the bearings and repack them with Chris King silver 
Chris King Silver GreaseWhy We Make This You wouldn’t make your own pasta from scratch and then pour jarred sauce on it. So yeah, the kind of people who make their own bearings also formulate their own lubricants. It’s kinda who we are. Why You Want It Chris King Silver Grease is a nano-particle lubricant optimized for...
chrisking.com
It's a bit expensive but it holds up great. Once a year a clean/repack and they always stay running fast enough | ||||
Yeah right so how does that work?DT bearings can sometimes become stiff over time but my guess is that the feeling of speed you're getting is from the wheels being laced and tensioned correctly.
Bearings becoming stiff or spoke tension affecting rolling efficiency?
I don’t know why DT hubs have a tendency to stiffen up over time / the bearings binding, but my guess is that slight variations in the assembly or part tolerances causes them to shift ever so slightly during prolonged use. I have succesfully freed up a number of DT hubs by pressing out the NDS bearing and reassembling everything.
As for spoke tension, a properly tensioned wheel will hold its shape better and energy is thus not lost in the wheel deforming say, during acceleration or when power is applied.
I don’t know why DT hubs have a tendency to stiffen up over time / the bearings binding, but my guess is that slight variations in the assembly or part tolerances causes them to shift ever so slightly during prolonged use. I have succesfully freed up a number of DT hubs by pressing out the NDS bearing and reassembling everything.
As for spoke tension, a properly tensioned wheel will hold its shape better and energy is thus not lost in the wheel deforming say, during acceleration or when power is applied.
Did you happen to put new tires on your new wheels?
Everyone needs a fresh placebo dose now and then.
I came from an I9 trail s wheel set with hydra hubs and now have a set of We are one union wheels with hydra hubs. Both 28 spoke, but did not swap the straight pull hubs over to the new wheels. Both sets of hubs spin the same on the bike stand. Riding is a different story, the WA1 roll faster with the same tires and are also heavier than the trail s. It feels like my power transfers to forward motion, with less waste, probably from being stiffer, thus transferring more energy. Easily noticeable riding on flat on 10 tooth rear sprocket. I weigh 225 so I was near the limit of the Trail s wheels, but they were still true and not dinged or banged up what so ever.
I'm confused….you have straight and j-bend hubs?I came from an I9 trail s wheel set with hydra hubs and now have a set of We are one union wheels with hydra hubs. Both 28 spoke, but did not swap the straight pull hubs over to the new wheels. Both sets of hubs spin the same on the bike stand. Riding is a different story, the WA1 roll faster with the same tires and are also heavier than the trail s. It feels like my power transfers to forward motion, with less waste, probably from being stiffer, thus transferring more energy. Easily noticeable riding on flat on 10 tooth rear sprocket. I weigh 225 so I was near the limit of the Trail s wheels, but they were still true and not dinged or banged up what so ever.
Which were 'better' in your observation?
Or is it the rim?
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Some pro mechanic's do stuff that makes no sense for us daily drivers like replacing bearing grease with oil, or shaving down seals to reduce drag. I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie's mechanic is doing other race day only stuff like running super light grease with modified seals in the BB. Just clean and grease the star ratchet when needed, and repack the bearings if they become gritty.
If you want a hub that rolls fast for years get an onyx classic. The drive mechanism doesn't create drag like pawls, star ratchet, ring drives.... They are heavy AF, but I bought my hub in 2015 and it still spins crazy good. I still have't serviced the drive mechanism.
If you want a hub that rolls fast for years get an onyx classic. The drive mechanism doesn't create drag like pawls, star ratchet, ring drives.... They are heavy AF, but I bought my hub in 2015 and it still spins crazy good. I still have't serviced the drive mechanism.
I actually put heavier tires on with more proclaimed rolling resistance (DHR2 to Assagai) haha.Did you happen to put new tires on your new wheels?
Hah! Also fair. However I've been riding bikes for a while now so im not quite that fresh. Would like to think what I feel is real.Everyone needs a fresh placebo dose now and then.
Thanks man. I love the 350's as they are easy to service and by all accounts are practically a no fuss hub.Some pro mechanic's do stuff that makes no sense for us daily drivers like replacing bearing grease with oil, or shaving down seals to reduce drag. I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie's mechanic is doing other race day only stuff like running super light grease with modified seals in the BB. Just clean and grease the star ratchet when needed, and repack the bearings if they become gritty.
If you want a hub that rolls fast for years get an onyx classic. The drive mechanism doesn't create drag like pawls, star ratchet, ring drives.... They are heavy AF, but I bought my hub in 2015 and it still spins crazy good. I still have't serviced the drive mechanism.
Yeah I have a rebranded 240 (roval). They are great hubs. Had a 350 for a while too. 350 is still the bench mark for pice, weight, and reliability. My onyx is so much heavier than my roval I can mount up DH rubber on the roval wheel and it still feels lighter than my onyx with exo. Good thing I can't feel hub weight on the ups or I would just run dt hubs.Thanks man. I love the 350's as they are easy to service and by all accounts are practically a no fuss hub.
I have two sets of Onyx hubs. The freehub drag is at least double that of my White Industries CLD+. The Onyx are quiet but they are by no means a class leader in drag.If you want a hub that rolls fast for years get an onyx classic. The drive mechanism doesn't create drag like pawls, star ratchet, ring drives.... They are heavy AF, but I bought my hub in 2015 and it still spins crazy good. I still haven't serviced the drive mechanism.
Vespers maybe? I think you and I have talked before about this on another thread? You've seen the Duke University data right? According to that study they are the leader in low drag.I have two sets of Onyx hubs. The freehub drag is at least double that of my White Industries CLD+. The Onyx are quiet but they are by no means a class leader in drag.
Vespers have less sprag engagement than Classic. IIRC, in that study, DT swiss had lower freehub drag, and White Ind was not included.
The problem with them is that they have trash bearings whose drag will very quickly overwhelm that of the freehub mechanism drag.Vespers maybe? I think you and I have talked before about this on another thread? You've seen the Duke University data right? According to that study they are the leader in low drag.
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vespers do have less sprag engagement but they drag more because of how the vesper press fits together vs the classic's preload ring design which puts less side load on the bearings. The Duke study showed onyx classic having lower drag than DT. It's not worth posting the study but if you want to do so to prove me wrong that would be great. Anyone can look it up if they care about splitting hairs over hub drag.Vespers have less sprag engagement than Classic. IIRC, in that study, DT swiss had lower freehub drag, and White Ind was not included.
ok, looking at it again, the Onyx Classic is a little less than the DT. I would still say that White has lower freehub drag because in a spin down test, it appears to be nearly zero. Freehub drag does not depend on load on the tire so I think that is a valid test.
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