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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a stock Forge Sawback 5xx, it comes with itsninja tires...I literally pop a tube every week with this thing, Im on my 5th one on the front and my second one on the rear. Any little thorn or piece of glass must be popping these things, its not a pinch or the spokes or anything, its always facing the tread and I even went thru a thorn proof tube now...so that being said I want a tougher tire/tube combo.

Was looking at Maxxis but its so easy to get confused with all the different treads, durometers, compunds etc. Im very new to mountain biking, I only ride on the street to my trails...then I ride mainly hard packed/rooted trails...sometimes go into sand. I dont need anything competitive, I don't really mind weight I just cant keep popping tubes like this...any recommendations for me?
 

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2StepsAhead said:
I have a stock Forge Sawback 5xx, it comes with itsninja tires...I literally pop a tube every week with this thing, Im on my 5th one on the front and my second one on the rear. Any little thorn or piece of glass must be popping these things, its not a pinch or the spokes or anything, its always facing the tread and I even went thru a thorn proof tube now...so that being said I want a tougher tire/tube combo.

Was looking at Maxxis but its so easy to get confused with all the different treads, durometers, compunds etc. Im very new to mountain biking, I only ride on the street to my trails...then I ride mainly hard packed/rooted trails...sometimes go into sand. I dont need anything competitive, I don't really mind weight I just cant keep popping tubes like this...any recommendations for me?
Did you check the tire for thorns, glass...
 

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Assuming you have carefuly checked the rim for burs, the rim tape for cracks or misplacement, and you have looked at the tire VERY carefuly, some nice thorn resistant tires are what you should be looking for. WHen you inspect your current tire, you REALLY have to be weary of imbedded glass that is NOT easily felt even if you run your hand through it. You really have to look carefully for glass. Look for tears in the tread as well.

But if your problem really is just harsh riding/riding environment (i.e tons of thorns) you should consider getting a tire that is specifically designed to be thorn resistant. Specialized makes great tires that come in many good tread patterns that are available in an Armadillo casing. This just means its a very tough tire that will last a bit longer and resist thorns VERY well.

THe other option is to convert to tubless. Much better performance with this route, but it requires regular maintinence and it can be messy. Wait, no, it is messy.

On my all mountain 6"x6" bike, I run a set of 2.3 Specialized Eskar with Armadillo casing, and I run it tubless. I never think twice about my tires. Ever. I also have 2.0" Specialized Fast Tracks on my XC hardtail (tubeless). Its a great tire and its available in armadillo form. A 2.2 Specialized The Captain is another great tire that fits between the Eskar and the Fast Track. I dont run them, but they are easily one of the MOST popular tires in my area (DFW Texas). Also available in armadillo casing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah I check the inner tire with my hands and the carcass of the tire is so floppy I even turn it almost inside out and take a look at it...I usually get 4-5 rides in before I pop another one, really seems to depend on my terrain theres one section of thorns in my trails...also a small section of tarmac that connects the trails that has a little broken glass.

The thing that bugs me is I have a bmx bike that I use now when my tubes are popped on the mtn bike that Ive had for 4+ years now with Maxxis Maxdaddy's on it and Ive never popped a tube on it ever and I ride the same exact trails/roads with it.
 

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Slime tubes might be a good option for you too, perhaps in addition to a better tire as well.

These have Slime already pre-installed in the tubes, and while I don't like this particular sealant as much as Stan's, it is a lot cheaper, and you get maybe 90% of the performance (puncture-wise) as you would from a Stan's setup, but it's mess free, unlike Stan's. You're also giving up pinch-flat protection, lower weight, and improved traction, which are all benefits of the straight-up tubeless route. But you wouldn't get those anyway unless you were to ditch the tubes.

Slime tubes are the cheapest option for you and might work on their own. Slime tubes plus Armadillo-type tires will almost definitely fix your problems. Next step up would be tubeless - but it's even more expensive, messy, and can be fussy to set up. That said, I am a tubeless fan myself. It just takes a bit more time and effort. But the only way you'll flat on such a setup, as long as you did it right, is if you get a major gash in a sidewall that the sealant can't clog.
 

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2StepsAhead said:
Yeah I check the inner tire with my hands and the carcass of the tire is so floppy I even turn it almost inside out and take a look at it...I usually get 4-5 rides in before I pop another one, really seems to depend on my terrain theres one section of thorns in my trails...also a small section of tarmac that connects the trails that has a little broken glass.

The thing that bugs me is I have a bmx bike that I use now when my tubes are popped on the mtn bike that Ive had for 4+ years now with Maxxis Maxdaddy's on it and Ive never popped a tube on it ever and I ride the same exact trails/roads with it.
When I see "pop" tubes I think BANG, as in explode. Simple punctures are something else.

I can not find any info on the Ninja tire. Pics? Size, casing type?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah I meant a small puncture not an explosion lol.

Honestly I can't find any info on them, they just come on the Forge Sawback 5xx stock...I googled the company and I dont see much but theyre mentioned on here once or twice. Theyre paper thin.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=383115

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=445603

Here theyre just mentioned...cant find any info on them whatsoever which is kinda shady and weird lol. Im just looking for a tougher tire, like I mentioned I have Maxxis Maxxdaddy's on my BMX for years and I never ever punctured one, Im not a great rider, not heavy, etc so Im really not pushing the tubes/tires hard but Im just assuming theyre paper thin junky stock tires...but when I looked at the reviews section every tire review seems to be back and forth, some tires seem puncture proof then one or two people complain that theyre flat magnets...just looking for something tougher and versatile and while Im at it Ill buy a thicker tube too.
 

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run 50 psi. i never seem to ever get any flats. i do get bounced around a little more but i fly on hardpack and never get snakebites or any other kind of punctures. my buddy runs 35-40 with better tread and always flats, like twice a month.
 

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Do this:

http://www.go-ride.com/Articles/ghetto_tubeless.html

BUT do the following modifications to the procedure:

1A - Use a schroeder valve tube. It is more durable, it will let you flow much more air when inflating, and it is easier to put more stans in later. Presta valves are for roadies.

2A - Clean the powder out of the inner tube using simple green and a ton of water. Get all the powder out. This cannot be emphasized enough. Get it really really clean. Residual powder = slow leaks at the bead.

3A - Before you start mounting the tire onto the rim give the tube and the tire bead a quick wipe down with a paper towel that is wetted with brake cleaner. It will remove the last of the powder from the tube and the release compound from the tire bead. It will also give you cancer.

4A - Now that you wiped the tube and tire down with brake cleaner it is a real beeyatch to mount the tire, as they want to grip each other like nothing you've ever experienced. DO NOT use soap and water to lubricate. Use a thin coat of "latex mold builder" (http://www.michaels.com/art/online/d...ductNum=gc0514) to lube the bead as you slide it on.

6A - For big tires use 3 or 4oz of stans. The extra ounce isn't going to kill you, but it comes in handy when you get a huge puncture.
6B - Besides the 3oz of stans add 1 heaping teaspoon of the "latex mold builder" and stir it into the stans. It helps the stans work better on larger punctures and small tears.
6C - If the tire is really tight and you are having trouble getting the last part of the bead over the rim lip make yourself some "rim protectors". Fold a piece of duct tape in half, then fold a piece of packaging tape over the duct tape. Use the tape to protect the rim strip from your tire irons when you lever the bead over the rim. Difficult to explain, I'll post some photos.
6D - Ignore the directions to build up the center of the rim with tape to make a tight seal. Your air compressor takes care of that when used properly.

7A - Rotate the wheel so the valve is towards the top (and the stans is now 180 degrees away in the bottom of the tire). Remove the valve core of the schroeder valve. Remove the tire chuck from your air compressor,. leaving just the quick connect. Add air to the valve stem straight from the quick connect. The valve stem will actuate the quick connect and you will get a huge volume of air that will seat the tire instantly. No more f-ing around with soap and water and oozing stans and squeezing the tire and getting pissed off. The above method WILL seat your tire on the rim.
7B - Wrestle the valve core back into the valve stem. Try not to coat yourself with stans (thats why I had you rotate the stem upwards).

The heavier duty of tube you use as a rim strip the less likely you will slice the sidewall of your tire open, but it becomes a real bear to seat the tires because the tube is so thick. On my downhill wheels I use a 20" thorn resistant tube, but it is nearly impossible to mount hutchinson wire bead tires without messing up the bead.

The pipe tape method is lighter but much much less reliable and prone to burping. If you lose pressure on the trail you are done, the tire will "de-bead" from the rim and you will have to put a tube in. With the tube strip method the tire and the tube strip lightly glue themselves together over time. You can totally deflate the tire then pump it back up with a compact pump, it won't "de-bead".

Weight:
performance 20" BMX tube: 130 grams
stans: 80 grams
mold builder: 14 grams
excess tube trimmed off: -73grams
Total weight: 151 grams.

A 26" slime tube weighs 310 grams.

The only real problem with ghetto tubeless is swapping tires. Since the tire and the rubber rim strip "stick" to one another you have to carefully peel the tire bead off the rim strip before dismounting the tire, otherwise you'll destroy the rim strip.

Usually the rubber rim strip will hold its shape and you can put a new tire on no problem, but sometimes it wants to curl inwards away from the edge of the rim. When that happens I just use scotch tape to hold the rim strip where it should be, then I yank the tape out before seating the bead.

The following least->best ratings are what I've found over the years. My opinion only, others may agree/disagree.

Reliability (least to best):
Ultralight tube + std tire
Standard tube + std tire
Slime Tube + std tire
UST rim + std tire + sealant
Ghetto tubeless + std tire + sealant <-my preferred all mountain setup
UST rim + UST Tire + sealant
Ghetto tubeless + UST tire + sealant <- my preferred downhill setup

Weight (lightest to heaviest):
Ultralight tube + std tire
Ghetto tubeless + std tire + sealant (assuming xm719 or stans 355XC rims)
Standard tube + std tire
UST rim + std tire + sealant (assuming 819 rims)
Ghetto tubeless + std tire + sealant (assuming EN521rims)
Slime Tube + std tire
Ghetto tubeless + UST tire + sealant
UST rim + UST Tire + sealant

try it you'll like it.

original post:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=568378&highlight=ghetto
 
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