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Hi, want some opinions, I have a GF Rig. Like it a lot, but have been looking at the Zion, steel frame vs. the aluminum of the Rig. Could just swap all the parts over. Any thoughts/opinions? Any other ideas would be apreciated as well, but the thing that attracted me towards the Zion was price as well for steel.

Thanks a bunch!
 

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And He was Not
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Not that much to be gained. I have both of them.Both are mediums. The Rig has a longer TT. The Rig does not ride that harsh for Aluminum. The Zion does not clear the Reba. The Rig is at minimun 1 lb. lighter. Zion has better tire clearance. Rig has a higher BB.The Zion may be a little faster turning, but NOT by much. That is about all I can think of.
 

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Enoch said:
Not that much to be gained. I have both of them.Both are mediums. The Rig has a longer TT. The Rig does not ride that harsh for Aluminum. The Zion does not clear the Reba. The Rig is at minimun 1 lb. lighter. Zion has better tire clearance. Rig has a higher BB.The Zion may be a little faster turning, but NOT by much. That is about all I can think of.
i went from a rig to a custom frame. i will echo what is stated above. the rig rides very nicely in the grand scheme of things. the only reason i see to switch is if the rig does not fit properly. like you are going up or down in frame size.

all steel is not the same. and all aluminum is not the same. there's more to it than 'steel is real'.

if you want to throw money at a stock rig, get some of the new big tires. the rampage and nevegal both fit in the purple rig frame.
 

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Enoch said:
Not that much to be gained. I have both of them.Both are mediums. The Rig has a longer TT. The Rig does not ride that harsh for Aluminum. The Zion does not clear the Reba. The Rig is at minimun 1 lb. lighter. Zion has better tire clearance. Rig has a higher BB.The Zion may be a little faster turning, but NOT by much. That is about all I can think of.
Great summary of the differences. I got rid of the Rig since I preferred the shorter TT of the Zion, and have no regrets.
 

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Imo..

dirtluvraz said:
Hi, want some opinions, I have a GF Rig. Like it a lot, but have been looking at the Zion, steel frame vs. the aluminum of the Rig. Could just swap all the parts over. Any thoughts/opinions? Any other ideas would be apreciated as well, but the thing that attracted me towards the Zion was price as well for steel.

Thanks a bunch!
i'd ride the rig and shop for a used niner...
 

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Angry bunny
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jrm said:
i'd ride the rig and shop for a used niner...
I find this an interesting comment.
Why would you buy a Made in Taiwan Niner over a Made in Taiwan Zion??
Looking at the Sir 9 geometry chart vs the Zion geometry chart they are almost identical.
Why the massive support fram many here behind Niner???
From what I understand they are made and painted in Taiwan for a US company which is no better than many other companies that get pasted here.
Not wanting to start a war or anything, I am just interested is all.
 

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TR said:
I find this an interesting comment.
Why would you buy a Made in Taiwan Niner over a Made in Taiwan Zion??
Looking at the Sir 9 geometry chart vs the Zion geometry chart they are almost identical.
Why the massive support fram many here behind Niner???
From what I understand they are made and painted in Taiwan for a US company which is no better than many other companies that get pasted here.
Not wanting to start a war or anything, I am just interested is all.
It's pretty simple .... the SIR 9 is "Special". The Zion is just ... another frame. :D

R.
 

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Angry bunny
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Rainman said:
It's pretty simple .... the SIR 9 is "Special". The Zion is just ... another frame. :D

R.
Good to see I am getting some quality well thought out answers here.
And at the moment Rainman, the Niner is not particularly special over here.
They are as common as Volkswagen Golf GTI's.
I have at least 3 mates in my riding group on them whereas I am the only guy who owns a Zion. :p

I am not rubbishing Niner, I have ridden one via Shannon at MTBPrecision and they make a nice bike.
I am only trying to understand why they are held in such high esteem by the US guys who often do not have the same esteem for other companies who have their frames built in Taiwan.
 

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TR said:
I find this an interesting comment.
Why would you buy a Made in Taiwan Niner over a Made in Taiwan Zion??
Looking at the Sir 9 geometry chart vs the Zion geometry chart they are almost identical.
Why the massive support fram many here behind Niner???
From what I understand they are made and painted in Taiwan for a US company which is no better than many other companies that get pasted here.
Not wanting to start a war or anything, I am just interested is all.
Well, a lot of it is just loyalty. Niner was the first (and possibly still only) all-29" brand. That carries a lot of weight with some people. Nothing wrong with that. If that doesn't matter to you personally, well there's nothing wrong with that either.

Also, they put a lot more thought into their designs than many of their competitors. Niners might be built in Taiwan alongside a lot of other bikes made for prominent companies, but if anything the commodification of manufacturing makes design ever more important than it used to be. Comparing the SIR 9 with the Zion EBB for example, the Niner is quite a bit lighter ... not only through tubing selection, but also because of the intricate machining of their EBB which gets it quite a few grams lighter than anyone else's. There are quite a few other details where it's just obvious Niner put a lot of thought into everything. The SIR is also famous for its smooth ride. All steel frames are not equal, and although I'm sure the Zion's ride is nice it's not going to be quite the equal of the Niner. Again, if these things don't matter to you, that's perfectly fine. Just explaining the other point of view since you asked.
 

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TR said:
I find this an interesting comment.
Why would you buy a Made in Taiwan Niner over a Made in Taiwan Zion??.
The Niner (Specifically SIR Nine) is probably:

1. Twice the price new.

2. Lighter

3. Marginally more compliant (thinner 853 tubing?)

4. Has way prettier paint

5. Has Reba Clearance

6. Has too short a seat tube (for me)

7. Can run gears or SS

Buying used alleviates the first issue probably, but the you get a used frame.

If any of the above are important issues to you as a buyer, I guess it could swing you one way or the other. None of those things are that important to me except #6, so I ended up on the Zion.

I doubt the frames ride a whole lot different, but only have about 200 yards of street riding on a Sir Nine.
 

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TR said:
Good to see I am getting some quality well thought out answers here.
And at the moment Rainman, the Niner is not particularly special over here.
They are as common as Volkswagen Golf GTI's.
I have at least 3 mates in my riding group on them whereas I am the only guy who owns a Zion. :p

I am not rubbishing Niner, I have ridden one via Shannon at MTBPrecision and they make a nice bike.
I am only trying to understand why they are held in such high esteem by the US guys who often do not have the same esteem for other companies who have their frames built in Taiwan.
I think [seriously] that it's simply because of the ride and the geometry of the SIR 9.

Whilst there are a ton of Taiwanese made frames that anyone can buy, what it comes down to in the end is the specifications supplied to the Taiwanese factory on the steel used, the geometry and the way the frame is put together.

Niner bikes just got it right, imo. They did their homework properly and the end result is a springy steel frame that feels great to ride.

This is the reason why so many people like the frame and place it above other similiar Taiwanese steel frames. Some steel frames just feel "dull" and others feel too flexy. Niner got the SIR absolutely spot-on, imo.

R.
 

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Angry bunny
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GlowBoy said:
Well, a lot of it is just loyalty. Niner was the first (and possibly still only) all-29" brand. That carries a lot of weight with some people. Nothing wrong with that. If that doesn't matter to you personally, well there's nothing wrong with that either.

Also, they put a lot more thought into their designs than many of their competitors. Niners might be built in Taiwan alongside a lot of other bikes made for prominent companies, but if anything the commodification of manufacturing makes design ever more important than it used to be. Comparing the SIR 9 with the Zion EBB for example, the Niner is quite a bit lighter ... not only through tubing selection, but also because of the intricate machining of their EBB which gets it quite a few grams lighter than anyone else's. There are quite a few other details where it's just obvious Niner put a lot of thought into everything. The SIR is also famous for its smooth ride. All steel frames are not equal, and although I'm sure the Zion's ride is nice it's not going to be quite the equal of the Niner. Again, if these things don't matter to you, that's perfectly fine. Just explaining the other point of view since you asked.
Thanks for a well thought out and serious reply Glowboy.
I can agree on the smooth (almost flexy in my memory from a while ago) ride that the Sir had.
I am just waiting for my build kit to arrive so that i can build up my geared Zion so that I can then report back on my impressions of the ride quality of the Zion vs my El Comandante which IMO has been the best riding bike I have ever had.
 

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Angry bunny
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Rainman said:
I think [seriously] that it's simply because of the ride and the geometry of the SIR 9.

Whilst there are a ton of Taiwanese made frames that anyone can buy, what it comes down to in the end is the specifications supplied to the Taiwanese factory on the steel used, the geometry and the way the frame is put together.

Niner bikes just got it right, imo. They did their homework properly and the end result is a springy steel frame that feels great to ride.

This is the reason why so many people like the frame and place it above other similiar Taiwanese steel frames. Some steel frames just feel "dull" and others feel too flexy. Niner got the SIR absolutely spot-on, imo.

R.
OK thanks for coming back with a good response.
I suppose all I can do is wait for my build kit and then head out with my mate who has a Large Sir 9 with an almost identical buildkit with the exception of rims and handlebar and he & I ride them side by side to get some comparison.
I think any difference will probably come down to the steel quality as the geometry is near identical.
Anyone keen for a report once I do the comparison??
 

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Bad day..

I'm bias towards the niners geometry (trail,bb drop, and corrected front end). If i could swing a SIR 9 right now i would.

I need to use a bit of discretion when im grumpy and decide to post...peace
 

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Angry bunny
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jrm said:
I'm bias towards the niners geometry (trail,bb drop, and corrected front end). If i could swing a SIR 9 right now i would.

I need to use a bit of discretion when im grumpy and decide to post...peace
Absloutely no hard feelings at all jrm.
I was just being a smart ass myself.

cheers
 

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TR said:
I find this an interesting comment.
Why would you buy a Made in Taiwan Niner over a Made in Taiwan Zion??
Looking at the Sir 9 geometry chart vs the Zion geometry chart they are almost identical.
TeamDickey made that same statement.These Bikes are VERY different.

I also have a SIR Niner. The Zion and the Niner are Sooo different. My Niner feels as if it has a shorter cockpit, but it has a longer stem than I have on the Zion. I find the Niner a bit twitchey were the Zion is super stable. The Niner has a way more compliant ride over the Zion, but I like the firm feel of the rear trianglle of the Zion. The BB seems lower on the Niner, ( I haven't measured them both yet). The craftsmanship on the Niner is very good, the Zion is pretty scary looking around the welds. I rode my Niner today and it is a fine bike, but I hate to say this, I like the Zion and they way it handles better. Just for what it is worth, I feel more comfortable doing drops, steep chutes, and jumps on my Rig over both of these othe bikes I have. Who would've figured. :rolleyes:
 
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