Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner

1 - 20 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey, I was thinking about you folks always looking for the ultimate fork for the 5-spot. The specs for the 05 Marzo AllMountain line have been posted on the shock forum.

Here it is:
http://www.freeride.cz/mtb/clanky/index.php?action=clanek&id=542

The AllMountain1, 130 to 150mm of adjustable travel plus ETA, 4.3lbs. Same axle to crown as the current Z1 in the 130mm setting then add 20mm when at 150mm travel. Isn't that sweet! haha

Cheers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
Sounds sweet...

BanzaiRider said:
Hey, I was thinking about you folks always looking for the ultimate fork for the 5-spot. The specs for the 05 Marzo AllMountain line have been posted on the shock forum.

Here it is:
http://www.freeride.cz/mtb/clanky/index.php?action=clanek&id=542

The AllMountain1, 130 to 150mm of adjustable travel plus ETA, 4.3lbs. Same axle to crown as the current Z1 in the 130mm setting then add 20mm when at 150mm travel. Isn't that sweet! haha

Cheers.
Buttt i could not be happier with my new 130mm fox at 4.07lbs.. plus the price cant be beat for the vanilla R, Larry has the best prices, God only knows how much the marzocchis are gonna be.. If I didnt get such a good deal on the fox, The new all mountain would have been the fork i waited for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The MSRP is in the Sept issue of Flow...

I was at the magazine store browsing and I saw it in Flow magazine (I'm not 100% sure it was Flow but for sure it was one of those new big size mags). They were listing the MSRP at $769 for the AllMountain 1. That's steep but I guess it's in line with the new 140-150mm travel offerings for 05 like the Fox 36 and Manitou Nixon, and probably in a certain way also the Maverick... The RockShox Pike will be less but it's also something a lot of people call RockSucks!

Anyway, to me just looking at the specs of those 05 loooong travel forks, the Marzo AllMountain1 seems like the most interesting. The Nixon and the Fox36 will be nice but both air forks and I would like to get myself a coil fork this time.

Cheers.

gritsngravy said:
Buttt i could not be happier with my new 130mm fox at 4.07lbs.. plus the price cant be beat for the vanilla R, Larry has the best prices, God only knows how much the marzocchis are gonna be.. If I didnt get such a good deal on the fox, The new all mountain would have been the fork i waited for.
 

·
M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
Joined
·
3,584 Posts
BanzaiRider said:
I was at the magazine store browsing and I saw it in Flow magazine (I'm not 100% sure it was Flow but for sure it was one of those new big size mags).
it was in TwentySix :cool:
 

·
No, that's not phonetic
Joined
·
14,313 Posts
It looks cool, but Zoke still has not addressed the most fundamental problem with the Z line: too long an axle to crown distance for a given travel. The 130mm stroke forks start to push the limits of what a Spot can accept gracefully. You can get more travel out of a different brand fork with the same axle to crown distance (e.g. Maverick with 150mm of travel has the same A to C as the 130mm Zoke). My Z1 leaves a solid inch of clearance between the largest tire I can fit through the arch and the bottom of the crown at full bottomout. What is the uitility in that? The 150 is totally out of the question. They still haven't done much to increase tire clearance either it seems.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
Right

tscheezy said:
It looks cool, but Zoke still has not addressed the most fundamental problem with the Z line: too long an axle to crown distance for a given travel. The 130mm stroke forks start to push the limits of what a Spot can accept gracefully. You can get more travel out of a different brand fork with the same axle to crown distance (e.g. Maverick with 150mm of travel has the same A to C as the 130mm Zoke). My Z1 leaves a solid inch of clearance between the largest tire I can fit through the arch and the bottom of the crown at full bottomout. What is the uitility in that? The 150 is totally out of the question. They still haven't done much to increase tire clearance either it seems.

The fork looks mighty tempting until you compare the numbers. At 150mm travel, the All Mountain 1 has a A to C of 538!! Rediculous. The new coil sprung Manitou Nixon Elite has 145 mm travel and a A to C measurement of only 510mm. My mechanic at my LBS is getting one on his Spot and I will tag along on a shop ride to get a chance to see how it feels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,070 Posts
BanzaiRider said:
Anyway, to me just looking at the specs of those 05 loooong travel forks, the Marzo AllMountain1 seems like the most interesting. The Nixon and the Fox36 will be nice but both air forks and I would like to get myself a coil fork this time.
Yeah, the AM1 looks to be the ticket, although I don't know about that price. I know air shocks have come a long way in terms of ride and reliability, but I'm sticking with coil. I'd much rather see dual coil on the AM1, but at least you could still ride home with the one spring in there if the air seals blow. An '04 Z1 on closeout is going to be a fraction of the price to give up that 20mm of travel, but gain dual coil and thru axle compatibility.

The Nixon Elite sounded cool (145mm travel, coil, TPC damping), but I'm actually on the other side of the fence regarding AC height- I'm looking for all I can get on my RFX. And as has been pointed out here before, adding travel without increasing the AC length is a zero sum game- the fork is just going to be that much shorter at full compression and your HA that much steeper.

Alloy stanchions and steerer are a must for me as well, so it looks like the Firefly, 66, and Z1 are out. If someone were to do stainless steel tubes here that would be sweet, but otherwise I don't want to worry about non-lubricated parts of my bike rusting.

You would think a 6" coil fork with non-ferrous tubes would be the starting point for these fork lines; funny how only Marzocchi appears to have come anywhere close for '05.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Hum, I have another way of seeing this...

Tscheezy, if you say your Z1 is currently "graceful" with your Spot, then I have another way of looking at the new AllMountain 150mm. You can still have the same "grace" with the new fork when putting it at 130mm since the AtoC is the same as the current Z1 and you have the ETA for steep climbs. However, when reaching the top of a long climb or for more "downhill" specific days, you can bring it up to 150mm adding 20mm of travel and 20mm of lenght so providing a slacker head angle. To me that is great if you have enough ground clearance on your bike.

What do you think?

tscheezy said:
It looks cool, but Zoke still has not addressed the most fundamental problem with the Z line: too long an axle to crown distance for a given travel. The 130mm stroke forks start to push the limits of what a Spot can accept gracefully. You can get more travel out of a different brand fork with the same axle to crown distance (e.g. Maverick with 150mm of travel has the same A to C as the 130mm Zoke). My Z1 leaves a solid inch of clearance between the largest tire I can fit through the arch and the bottom of the crown at full bottomout. What is the uitility in that? The 150 is totally out of the question. They still haven't done much to increase tire clearance either it seems.

 

·
the refurbished one
Joined
·
723 Posts
steve3 said:
Anyone know what the Marz philosophy behind such long A-C measurements are?
good question! :)
the marzocchi forks are so much longer (A-C) than all other fork out there.

cheers,
phil
 

·
No, that's not phonetic
Joined
·
14,313 Posts
Banzai- I follow your thinking, but consider this:

The Spot wants a 500-510mm A-C for good general handling all other things being the same. A 520mm fork works, but we are starting to migrate out of the optimum here, imo. Climbing is helped by a touch lower still front end.

If fork manufacturer A makes a fork which gets 6" of travel with a 520mm A to C, and this can be racked out to 7" of travel easily without changing spring rate and resulting in a 540mm A to C, and in either position you have the option of an instant lockdown for climbs, wouldn't you choose that over manufacturer B which offers all the same stuff but with an inch less travel in each scenario?

I don't fault Zoke for any features per se. They are definitely identifying and playing to the correct market, I just think they are being a little dumb in not cutting about 10-15mm off the bottom of their stanchion tubes or shortening the sliders so that the fork is either lower, or gets the travel achieveable by that A-C.

MArider- I saw DT quote that 510mm length for the nixon and I really think he must be mistaken. The lowest A-C of any 5" fork is the fox at about 498mm. Adding an inch would give you 523mm. The lowest A-C for any 6" fork is the Mav with 518mm. Normal 5" Shermans, which the Nixon chassis seem to be based on, are taller (512mm) than the Foxes, and the A-C of the Shermans go up linearly with travel (add 20mm of travel, the A-C goes up 20mm). I'm guessing the Nixon with 145mm travel is going to be somewhere around 528-532mm A-C.
 

·
No, that's not phonetic
Joined
·
14,313 Posts
That sounds like heavy rationalizing. If someone wanted a slacker HA, they could get a fork with more travel rather than one which just artificially and uselessly tall. If they wanted overlap they could have extended the sliders below the dropouts like on the Monster, but that move is obviously totally unnecessary since their other DCs with 170+mm of travel don't need such a feature. When people commented on the "new" generation of Z1s being tall when they came out last year, Zoke supposedly said it was a engineering glitch because the forks were rushed to market to compete with Manitou's line. Whatever. I suspect they were too lazy/cheap to create totally new molds for the lowers. Probably just cinicism on my part...

There is no doubt that those all-mountains are painfully sexy forks and if the features are as advertised, they will deserve all the lust directed at them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I agree...

Yes if the Zoke AllMountain was around 525mm AtoC at 150mm it would be perfect, 505mm at 130mm. I tought you were saying it should be 150mm travel and the lenght of most current 125mm forks like Talas, Vanilla, Minute at 500-505mm AtoC.

I also agree with you that it is almost impossible that the Nixon will be 510mm AtoC at 145mm. I'm quite sure it will be like the current Sherman (510mm) plus 15mm of travel so (525mm AtoC).

I have to admit that if the Nixon Elite (coil and TPC damping) is around 120-125mm AtoC, adjustable wind down travel to 115mm and no change in spring rate, it will be difficult to choose when compared with the Zoke AllMountain...

A lot of fun coming up in the next few weeks/months...

Cheers

tscheezy said:
Banzai- I follow your thinking, but consider this:

The Spot wants a 500-510mm A-C for good general handling all other things being the same. A 520mm fork works, but we are starting to migrate out of the optimum here, imo. Climbing is helped by a touch lower still front end.

If fork manufacturer A makes a fork which gets 6" of travel with a 520mm A to C, and this can be racked out to 7" of travel easily without changing spring rate and resulting in a 540mm A to C, and in either position you have the option of an instant lockdown for climbs, wouldn't you choose that over manufacturer B which offers all the same stuff but with an inch less travel in each scenario?

I don't fault Zoke for any features per se. They are definitely identifying and playing to the correct market, I just think they are being a little dumb in not cutting about 10-15mm off the bottom of their stanchion tubes or shortening the sliders so that the fork is either lower, or gets the travel achieveable by that A-C.

MArider- I saw DT quote that 510mm length for the nixon and I really think he must be mistaken. The lowest A-C of any 5" fork is the fox at about 498mm. Adding an inch would give you 523mm. The lowest A-C for any 6" fork is the Mav with 518mm. Normal 5" Shermans, which the Nixon chassis seem to be based on, are taller (512mm) than the Foxes, and the A-C of the Shermans go up linearly with travel (add 20mm of travel, the A-C goes up 20mm). I'm guessing the Nixon with 145mm travel is going to be somewhere around 528-532mm A-C.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
I am currenly on a 04 Z1 FR. This fork is a litle too tall for sure but, there are things to do. I have swapped my stem (-5 degree now) and runs less air in the air-assist.

I love the action of this fork, so if I can get the allmost the same feeling with one pound less weight, I am an even happier man.

Does the AM forks only come in this sand color???


E
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
Actually DT said 515 for the Nixon but...

tscheezy said:
MArider- I saw DT quote that 510mm length for the nixon and I really think he must be mistaken. The lowest A-C of any 5" fork is the fox at about 498mm. Adding an inch would give you 523mm. The lowest A-C for any 6" fork is the Mav with 518mm. Normal 5" Shermans, which the Nixon chassis seem to be based on, are taller (512mm) than the Foxes, and the A-C of the Shermans go up linearly with travel (add 20mm of travel, the A-C goes up 20mm). I'm guessing the Nixon with 145mm travel is going to be somewhere around 528-532mm A-C.

....I got the 510 A to C measurement from Bill at Answer. The shorter A to C is supposedly due to a different chasis than the Sherman. The new chasis features "increased structural integrity achieved through radical tube butting" that allows for additional travel with less A to C height.

Good post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
BanzaiRider said:
Hey, I was thinking about you folks always looking for the ultimate fork for the 5-spot. The specs for the 05 Marzo AllMountain line have been posted on the shock forum.

Here it is:
http://www.freeride.cz/mtb/clanky/index.php?action=clanek&id=542

The AllMountain1, 130 to 150mm of adjustable travel plus ETA, 4.3lbs. Same axle to crown as the current Z1 in the 130mm setting then add 20mm when at 150mm travel. Isn't that sweet! haha

Cheers.
I'll tell you what that fork WOULD be perfect on - the upcoming Turner 6-Pack - no issues with head angle on a 6" travel bike I'd think...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,467 Posts
It's all in the name....

Steve3 has it right. Thats why they called it the "Z1 FR". Marzocchi never intended the Z1 line to be an XC fork, but since then it seems everybody has changed their definition of free-ride.

Personally, I think the Z1 is near perfect. I would be bummed if they reduced the a2c. If you think the Z1 is too tall or too heavy, just buy a fox! I think marzocchi did everything they could too make a bomb-proof 5" trail fork that can handle 8" rotors, gap jumps, drops, and steep technical descents- not too mention constant mucky conditions.

I always appreciate that extra 1" of a2c and slacker head angles when descending at the verge of my comfort level. Especially on my hardtail.

Marzocchi= "There's a bike on my fork!"
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,083 Posts
macrider said:
I'll tell you what that fork WOULD be perfect on - the upcoming Turner 6-Pack - no issues with head angle on a 6" travel bike I'd think...

Upcoming Turner 6-Pack?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
MARider said:
I believe macrider was just being facetious.
Nope, it's real - there has been a rumor of "another" Turner (not including the acknowledged "Nitrous" "Flux" and "Highline") - but I had an inside line on the soon to be announced "6-Pack" (how HOT is that name?) - I won't say much, since I don't want to piss off DT and jinx my Highline for next year - but since someone let the cat out of the bag on RM - I'll say what's been said there - six inch version of the 5-Spot on the way...commencing drooling and lusting....
 
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
Top