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Just another tubeless thread for a rainy day.

1837 Views 27 Replies 14 Participants Last post by J.B. Weld, Nov 21, 2021

Bassmantweed

Discussion Starter · Nov 13, 2021

So it’s a wet weekend here in New England. I can’t ride so as usual, when I’m not riding my bike I’m thinking about it.

I’m 236 lbs and trending downwards from 260. Trying to get to 225. My bike is pretty dialed in right now EXCEPT I still run tubes.
honestly the whole tubeless idea does not appeal to me at all. Mostly because I tend to run my tires at high pressure. But I want to make sure I’m not missing something.

at high pressure the only benefit I can think of is shaving a few grams off each wheel. I get that weight save on a rolling wheel (rotational mass) is the best weight you can save but it seems like at best I’d save 75 grams per wheel by replacing a 200g tube with 125g of fluid.

seems like a lot of trouble to save 5 oz.

again if I were running low pressure is do it.

Am I off base here?

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KevinWaterloo

· #2 · Nov 13, 2021

Running tubeless really isn't about saving weight. There are really 2 main benefits.

Less likely to get punctures and usually easy to fix if you do...often by simply pumping up again.
Able to run a lower pressures without the risk of pinch flats. And lower pressures result in significantly better grip.

If you never get flats and don't want to run lower pressures I would definitely stick with tubes. Setting up tubeless isn't hard, but is definitely more work (and mess) than running tubes.

Reactions: 5

Bassmantweed

Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 13, 2021

KevinWaterloo said:
Running tubeless really isn't about saving weight. There are really 2 main benefits.

Less likely to get punctures and usually easy to fix if you do...often by simply pumping up again.

Able to run a lower pressures without the risk of pinch flats. And lower pressures result in significantly better grip.

If you never get flats and don't want to run lower pressures I would definitely stick with tubes. Setting up tubeless isn't hard, but is definitely more work (and mess) than running tubes.

Thanks kind of why I haven’t done it yet.

J.B. Weld

· #4 · Nov 13, 2021

KevinWaterloo said:
Running tubeless really isn't about saving weight. There are really 2 main benefits.

Less likely to get punctures and usually easy to fix if you do...often by simply pumping up again.

Able to run a lower pressures without the risk of pinch flats. And lower pressures result in significantly better grip.

If you never get flats and don't want to run lower pressures I would definitely stick with tubes. Setting up tubeless isn't hard, but is definitely more work (and mess) than running tubes.

x2

Lot's of downhillers still use tubes because they run higher pressures. All my wheels are tubeless because I hate dealing with flats and tubed tires tend to puncture frequently around here.

Also tubeless tires and wheels are practically hassle free these days, much less work for me than constantly replacing tubes.

Jayem

· #5 · Nov 13, 2021

KevinWaterloo said:
Running tubeless really isn't about saving weight. There are really 2 main benefits.

Less likely to get punctures and usually easy to fix if you do...often by simply pumping up again.

Able to run a lower pressures without the risk of pinch flats. And lower pressures result in significantly better grip.

If you never get flats and don't want to run lower pressures I would definitely stick with tubes. Setting up tubeless isn't hard, but is definitely more work (and mess) than running tubes.

And I disagree with this significantly. If you were getting pinch flats before, you'll be pinching the tire with tubeless. In both cases, you aren't running enough pressure to keep you rims from banging off the ground.

Tubeless has much better rolling resistance because the tube isn't pushing against the tire as you roll over stuff and the tire conforms easier, less weight, but that's not a huge effect by itself, and puncture resistance to thorns and spines.

Reactions: 1

barelfly

· #6 · Nov 13, 2021

I was against tubeless, but really because I wasn’t educated on what it meant and what the benefits are. I come from a road bike background, so high pressure and tubes in skinny tires. I rode an older 26er MTB with tubes, 40psi and when I went with some buddies, I was bouncing all over the place, not getting traction and such.

Earlier in the year, I did buy a gravel/MTB with drop bars. I road for about a month with tubes, but after a flat, I read up on the process to convert, bought some supplies and switched over. Allowed me to drop pressure quite a bit, I think I was running 40 on this bike as well, but now I’m 26/28 psi and it’s night and day In comfort as well as traction.

I also ended up with a Specialized Stumpjumper this year - after I went tubeless on the gravel bike. As soon as I got it home, I switched to tubeless and run it at that. Like the others mentioned above, easier to fix with the plugs and sealant, running low pressure benefits of comfort and traction. With the traction, just seems to bite and hold. Also, I think you will notice the benefits of rolling over things and not having the bounce off. Really has improved the ride quality and I’ll never go back.

I live in the desert southwest, so tubeless with sealant is a must (even though I didn’t believe it so) with the goat heads, stickers and cactus.

That’s an opinion from a new convert. Hopefully provides you some perspective as well. And as for the road bike, I also run sealant in those tubes for the goat head/stickers that are on the roadside.

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Bassmantweed

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 13, 2021

barelfly said:
I was against tubeless, but really because I wasn’t educated on what it meant and what the benefits are. I come from a road bike background, so high pressure and tubes in skinny tires. I rode an older 26er MTB with tubes, 40psi and when I went with some buddies, I was bouncing all over the place, not getting traction and such.

Earlier in the year, I did buy a gravel/MTB with drop bars. I road for about a month with tubes, but after a flat, I read up on the process to convert, bought some supplies and switched over. Allowed me to drop pressure quite a bit, I think I was running 40 on this bike as well, but now I’m 26/28 psi and it’s night and day In comfort as well as traction.

I also ended up with a Specialized Stumpjumper this year - after I went tubeless on the gravel bike. As soon as I got it home, I switched to tubeless and run it at that. Like the others mentioned above, easier to fix with the plugs and sealant, running low pressure benefits of comfort and traction. With the traction, just seems to bite and hold. Also, I think you will notice the benefits of rolling over things and not having the bounce off. Really has improved the ride quality and I’ll never go back.

I live in the desert southwest, so tubeless with sealant is a must (even though I didn’t believe it so) with the goat heads, stickers and cactus.

That’s an opinion from a new convert. Hopefully provides you some perspective as well. And as for the road bike, I also run sealant in those tubes for the goat head/stickers that are on the roadside.

Interesting. I won’t lie that I do bounce around given the tire pressure that I run. That being said I’ve been doing it for 25 years. I’m just afraid at my weight if I don’t run high pressure then I’ll start dinging my rims. I guess there is always crush core but I might as well run tubes.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

J.B. Weld

· #8 · Nov 13, 2021

Bassmantweed said:
Interesting. I won’t lie that I do bounce around given the tire pressure that I run. That being said I’ve been doing it for 25 years. I’m just afraid at my weight if I don’t run high pressure then I’ll start dinging my rims. I guess there is always crush core but I might as well run tubes.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Then why start a thread if your mind is already made up?

Seriously though it's evident you're curious. Why not give it a shot? It's easy and life is too short to spend the rest of it ping-ponging off rocks!

Bassmantweed

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 13, 2021

J.B. Weld said:
Then why start a thread if your mind is already made up?

Seriously though it's evident you're curious. Why not give it a shot? It's easy and life is too short to spend the rest of it ping-ponging off rocks!

bored on a rainy evening. 👍🏻

you raise a good point though. I should try it. If I do and I don’t like it, is it easy to go back?

i just have a vision of glue all over my rims.
Uninformed on my part I’m sure.

Reactions: 1

barelfly

· #10 · Nov 14, 2021

Easy to go back, yes. Just remove the tubeless valves and put the tube back in. Well, you’ll probably want to clean out the inside of the tire from the sealant, but that’s it. If you are running tubeless ready wheels, they may be taped already and you can set it up yourself. If not, you would need to have that done or do it yourself. Lots of videos on YouTube to help. This is how I learned with a few questions to the LBS when I bought the valves.

There are various calculators online to help you get an idea of what air pressure you want to use. Specialized has one that includes shock settings and tire pressure that I use since I run their bike, but Silca and Enve have one as well. See what the recommended pressure is based on your weight and set up and see what the drop in pressure is before you do it. Then you have an idea at least to what the difference will be when you start and can go from there.

mtnbkrmike

· #11 · Nov 14, 2021 (Edited)

Jayem said:
And I disagree with this significantly. If you were getting pinch flats before, you'll be pinching the tire with tubeless. In both cases, you aren't running enough pressure to keep you rims from banging off the ground.

Tubeless has much better rolling resistance because the tube isn't pushing against the tire as you roll over stuff and the tire conforms easier, less weight, but that's not a huge effect by itself, and puncture resistance to thorns and spines.

Not to come across as a wise guy, and maybe I am way off base here, but I think I must be right on the edge, PSI-wise, of getting pinch flats (and denting alloy rims) running tubes, but being able to go forever problem-free running tubeless (with carbon rims), all at the same PSI. Now...I AM generally running EXO+ and DD Minions or Assegais on We Are One rims, so there's that. Tubed, I'm effed (with either alloy or carbon rims). Tubeless, I'm golden (with carbon rims). Maybe I am right at the unicorn PSI level. Not sure, but that's been my experience to date

.

As an aside, I just noticed today that my alloy rim on my fat bike is dented. Switching this week from tubed non-studded, to tubeless studded. I'm hoping it will hold air tubeless.

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J.B. Weld

· #12 · Nov 14, 2021

Bassmantweed said:
bored on a rainy evening. 👍🏻

you raise a good point though. I should try it. If I do and I don’t like it, is it easy to go back?

i just have a vision of glue all over my rims.
Uninformed on my part I’m sure.

Yeah it would be easy to go back but I can't relate. Go for it!

Reactions: 1

jrhone

· #13 · Nov 14, 2021

KevinWaterloo said:
Setting up tubeless isn't hard, but is definitely more work (and mess) than running tubes.

That all depends on his current wheels and if they were tubeless ready. My Chisel came pre-taped. So I got sealant and valves...pulled the tube out of one side, installed valves...set the bead with a floor pump and added sealant.

ZERO mess. ZERO hassle..and it was easier and faster than putting in a tube. Its also had a puncture that sealed in seconds...didnt even have to add air. I can run lower pressures and it lost 1/2 pound a wheel resulting in a 1 pound drop on an fairly light bike.

Zero downsides for me.

A2PM

· #14 · Nov 14, 2021

Cleaning rims was relatively easy for me. The old tires were pretty nasty but not too bad.

One positive to running lower pressures (up to a point) is you actually reduce rolling resistance unless you're riding on smooth pavement. Lower pressures tend to conform to irregularities rather than bounce. Not only does this provide better traction and a smoother ride but it also reduces rolling resistance unless you go real low on tire pressure.

HollyBoni

· #15 · Nov 14, 2021 (Edited)

Bassmantweed said:
bored on a rainy evening. 👍🏻

you raise a good point though. I should try it. If I do and I don’t like it, is it easy to go back?

i just have a vision of glue all over my rims.
Uninformed on my part I’m sure.

The "glue" is super easy to clean off from the rim, it literally takes about a minute. Cleaning the inside of the tyre is much harder, but if you use plenty of talcum powder when putting back the tubes, you won't have issues.
IMO there are way too many myths floating around the web about how "messy and a hassle" tubeless is, mostly spread by misinformed people who have never tried tubeless, or who tried tubeless and screwed something up that could have been easily avoidable, but they won't admit that to themselves.
If you use your brain just a tiny bit and pay attention to what you're doing, "going tubeless" is so easy. Yes, it's a tiny bit more work than just chucking a tube in. But for that tiny bit of extra work you get benefits, and you will most likely get back that extra time that you spent doing tubeless things because you won't have to fix as many punctures while out riding. So many people act like installing a tubeless tyre takes like a week of hard manual labour... While it's just a bit of extra time.
Even if you usually don't get pinch flats, you'll still get extra puncture protection against stuff like thorns. I have a friend who is still using tubes, and I had to wait plenty of times for him to fix punctures caused by thorns. The other day we went off the trail and rode through a field for like 20 seconds, and of course he got a puncture because of a thorn... 😁

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Bassmantweed

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 20, 2021

Well I went tubeless today. Or at least half way. The guy at the local bike shop handed me all the supplies including a roll of tape. He said to go around the rim 2x which I did. As a result I used up all the tape on one rim.

so back to the store in the am for another roll of tape. Do you guys put 2 layers of tape on? Seems a bit much.

J.B. Weld

· #17 · Nov 20, 2021

I do 1 wrap with about an 8" overlap but many do 2 laps. Like you 2 layers does seem a bit unnecessary to me.

I am pretty adamant about using tape that's 3-5mm wider than the inside rim width though.

Sanchofula

· #18 · Nov 21, 2021

A “is tubeless worth it” thread in 2021 is like someone in 1990 asking if automatic transmissions in cars are reliable 😆

Feel free to run tubes, my wife still drives a stick, it’s okay to be old school.

Bassmantweed

Discussion Starter · #19 · Nov 21, 2021

Nurse Ben said:
A “is tubeless worth it” thread in 2021 is like someone in 1990 asking if automatic transmissions in cars are reliable 😆

Feel free to run tubes, my wife still drives a stick, it’s okay to be old school.

my Thread could (and maybe should) have been how to run lower pressure as a big guy.

i just can’t seem to run the lower pressure some smaller guys can. At 260 dressed if I don’t put some pressure in my tires they feel like they are going to roll off the rim. As a result I have never seen the need to go tubeless. That isreally the basis of the thread.

Cary

· #20 · Nov 21, 2021

Bassmantweed said:
my Thread could (and maybe should) have been how to run lower pressure as a big guy.

i just can’t seem to run the lower pressure some smaller guys can. At 260 dressed if I don’t put some pressure in my tires they feel like they are going to roll off the rim. As a result I have never seen the need to go tubeless. That isreally the basis of the thread.

What width rim? What tires? As someone who rode at 240 pounds for years, I can tell you tubeless is great. I would run a strong casing tire on the rear (WTB Tough, Schwalbe Super Gravity, Maxxis DD, etc), you can get away with a slightly lighter on the front if you want (not cross country light). With 30mm internal rims and 2.4/2.5 tires I could comfortably run 23/27 without squirm or rim strikes. On my DH bike running tubeless and 25mm rims with 2.4-2.5 tires 27/30 was plenty with a supergravity casing.

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