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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Considering jumping from a Heckler to a Burner...The Heckler is a great bike, but I truly do not use the bike to it's full advantage -- I'm hitting 2 foot drops maximum on it and I doubt I will be hitting much more than that anytime soon. I've started questioning whether the extra weight and the disadvantages of a single pivot are worth it...Few questions:

I do love having a 5 inch fork- would the burner be out of whack with this?

One of my main problems with the Heckler is that it doesn't have the most sensitive small bump compliance and the brake locks out the suspension on descents. I assume the burner climbs awesome, but how does it descend?

thanks.....
 

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mad aussie
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I rode yesterday with someone on a Burner, he had a Talas and would kick it up to 125 on the downhills. He said it worked well going fast down, but he would wind it back to 100 on the flats or twisting singletrack as it threw the handling out.
A comment I have often heard regarding the Burner is that it feels like it has a lot more than just 3.6 inches of travel.
If you want to run 5 on the Burner I would probably suggest the Talas or another fork with travel adjust.
 

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bike moron
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brake jack thread

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=35347

There was a good thread wrt 5-Spot brake jack a little while back; the comments should apply to the Burner as well since the Horst Link & its application are probably really similar, if not identical, on the two frames. Don't know of you've thought about the 5 Spot which is more geared towards a 5 inch fork; but, if you can pass up the Burner mega deal, that might be something to consider.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If money was no object I would get a 5spot. I simply cannot afford the extra $1000 and frankly would have a hard time justifying it, considering the fact I already have a Heckler.

The frame is such an incredible deal, but if it's not worth it, please let me know, fellas. I don't want buyer's remorse.

I want a frame that has better climbing and small bump compliance. I figured the Burner might do a better job.

Maybe I'm needlessly stuck on having 5 inches in the front, but I've used a 5 inch fork for 4 years now and would like to stay there if I can.

Thanks for any advice....I'm literally minutes away from ordering...Can't quite pull the trigger, though, so I'm waiting for that shove in the back that convinces me...

TrailDog said:
I would have thought you'd be better going for a 5 spot and putting on an airshock if you want to save some weight.
 

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Go Bears!
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robotkiller said:
If money was no object I would get a 5spot. I simply cannot afford the extra $1000 and frankly would have a hard time justifying it, considering the fact I already have a Heckler.
Why not sell the Heckler and get a 5-spot? The burner would be a good complement with the Heckler, but if you're not going to be doing big drops, do you really need the Heckler?
 

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Lay off the Levers
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robotkiller said:
...Maybe I'm needlessly stuck on having 5 inches in the front, but I've used a 5 inch fork for 4 years now and would like to stay there if I can.
Don't rush it.

Help me understand (I'm a little dense) why do you want to bike-down from an Heckler to a Burner if you really want to keep a 5" fork? What do you need all that travel up front for if you don't want it in the back?

IMO if you want a more responsive bike, then you shouldn't half step. Get the Burner with the fork it was designed for and you'll enjoy yourself far more than you might expect. If you try to sit on the fence by mounting your deepwoods fork on your XC'ish bike you'll probably take the fun out of both aspects.

If you are planning on doing lots of hardcore agressive technical trail riding, go for the 5 Spot. If you are riding lots of fast and twisty trails and still like your technical sections the Burner will be fantastic. ...IMO
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I ride in Georgia -- basically we have lots of twisty singletrack running tight between trees with lots of roots and little 1-2 foot drops. Basically fast trails with the odd technical, rutted, rough sections thrown in.

I wanted more than an XC bike, but not quite a freeride bike. I have found the Heckler to be more on the freeride side of the coin than I am needing. It's fun as hell on descents, but the climbs are getting annoying. I want a more responsive bike that is active when pedaling, basically. I figure the Burner might be more what I need. Am I wrong?

The deal with the 5 inch fork is that I like the leverage and the plushness. It's not a deal breaker -- I just want to know how the Burner handles with one. I have a Vanilla can be dropped to 100 no problem.

Bikezilla said:
Don't rush it.

Help me understand (I'm a little dense) why do you want to bike-down from an Heckler to a Burner if you really want to keep a 5" fork? What do you need all that travel up front for if you don't want it in the back?

IMO if you want a more responsive bike, then you shouldn't half step. Get the Burner with the fork it was designed for and you'll enjoy yourself far more than you might expect. If you try to sit on the fence by mounting your deepwoods fork on your XC'ish bike you'll probably take the fun out of both aspects.

If you are planning on doing lots of hardcore agressive technical trail riding, go for the 5 Spot. If you are riding lots of fast and twisty trails and still like your technical sections the Burner will be fantastic. ...IMO
 

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You will like the Burner, but it is really made for the 100mm fork, 125mm will make for very slow steering. If you want a really plush fork, take a look at a Manitou Black or Minute in 100mm. You will be shocked at how plush they feel.
 

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mad aussie
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Mr Pink said:
What about a Burner with the new Maverick Sc32,its not a tall fork for5"?
I think for the cost of the Burner plus Maverick he could get a 5-spot and run his old fork up front. I say it sounds like the heckler is more "heavy duty" than what you want/need and the 5-spot probably would be too. I say go for the Burner! it will climb fantastically well c/w the Heckler and handle the odd rock drop and rock garden well. Just drop that fork to 100.
 

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Flying Wombat said:
I think for the cost of the Burner plus Maverick he could get a 5-spot and run his old fork up front. I say it sounds like the heckler is more "heavy duty" than what you want/need and the 5-spot probably would be too. I say go for the Burner! it will climb fantastically well c/w the Heckler and handle the odd rock drop and rock garden well. Just drop that fork to 100.
East coast baby, I know all about tight singletrack.:D

I agree. It sounds like the Burner would be the move. I guess you can run that adjustable Fox in 100 and 125 to get a feel for what you will really want. It seems like 5" mode will not give as much benifit in the plush department as it will take away from the handling. JMO
 

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go for it!

robotkiller said:
I ride in Georgia -- basically we have lots of twisty singletrack running tight between trees with lots of roots and little 1-2 foot drops. Basically fast trails with the odd technical, rutted, rough sections thrown in.

I wanted more than an XC bike, but not quite a freeride bike. I have found the Heckler to be more on the freeride side of the coin than I am needing. It's fun as hell on descents, but the climbs are getting annoying. I want a more responsive bike that is active when pedaling, basically. I figure the Burner might be more what I need. Am I wrong?

The deal with the 5 inch fork is that I like the leverage and the plushness. It's not a deal breaker -- I just want to know how the Burner handles with one. I have a Vanilla can be dropped to 100 no problem.
dude,

you should do it...especially since you have the vanilla. if it does not work at 125, just switch it to 100. if it does not work out turners have good resale value.

the active suspension on my 5 spot is awesome on technical climbs. i am sure the burner is good as well!
 

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Speaking of Singletrack...

Bikezilla said:
East coast baby, I know all about tight singletrack.:D
This weekend I rode some classic, alpine, fast, smooth, tight, did I mention fast, singletrack up in N. Utah. The kind of singletrack that makes you feel like you're going mach-12 as the elevation quickly falls away and the trees buzz past, with railed corners that suck up the suspension as the G's kick in with nary a finger on the brakes. You know the stuff that just puts a stupid grin all over your face and reminds you why you wished you never moved away from alpine country in the first place.

Anyway, up until this ride all of the terrain type I've experienced on the Spot was loose sand 'n rock, desert, slickrock, Moab-like, technical stuff... stuff that the Spot excels in. So with all the talk of Spot vs. Lower Travel FS Rigs, I was anxious to test the Spot on these trails that I had ridden religiously for ten years on a HT and see if it felt a little too slow, heavy, and non-responsive so that I could… well, so that I could justify the purchase of a Flux ;) , or whatever the hell DT's going to call it. And I've got to tell you the Spot left me with nothing to be desired. It was quick and responsive when I needed it and rock solid when the smooth gave way to rocky less forgiving sections, and it reacted to the tight switchbacks with flying colors.

I've never ridden a XCE, Burner or any other FS rig for that matter on these trails so maybe it was just a case of "ignorance is bliss", but I couldn't imagine a bike feeling better than the Spot did that day, other than… like I said I've got to find something to justify the Flux, it would've been nice to have a few pounds less to lug up one side before descending the other.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Wow...thanks guys. Looks like I'm going for it. A couple of more questions...

1) I've run the idea of lowering my fork to my LBS and they suggested I could run a little extra sag to get an effective 4 inches in the front. This way I could see how it rides with it being easily reversible. Good idea? I might just go ahead and tell 'em to lower it anyway.

2) Will my 2.35 Kenda Nevegals clear the stays?


This board has been very helpful. In alot of ways that 5 inch front fork is a crutch -- bailing me out of a lot of hairy situations. This is why I've been hesitant to change. Thanks for the help...
 

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robotkiller said:
Wow...thanks guys. Looks like I'm going for it. A couple of more questions...

1) I've run the idea of lowering my fork to my LBS and they suggested I could run a little extra sag to get an effective 4 inches in the front. This way I could see how it rides with it being easily reversible. Good idea? I might just go ahead and tell 'em to lower it anyway.

2) Will my 2.35 Kenda Nevegals clear the stays?

This board has been very helpful. In alot of ways that 5 inch front fork is a crutch -- bailing me out of a lot of hairy situations. This is why I've been hesitant to change. Thanks for the help...
The idea about running extra sag sounds pretty sketchy. Taking the 20% sag rule of thumb, you'd be running 45mm of sag to approximate the ride height of a 100mm fork w/ sag. That would mean running a spring that in all probability is way too soft and will bottom out quite easily.

I would try the fork @ 125mm first. The HA will be pretty slack, but ~1.5" more travel in the front alone should not make the bike feel unbalanced (think of hardtails w/ infinitely more travel up front than in the back). If the front feels "floppy" then make the switch. I didn't think changing the travel was that big a deal with the Vanillas anyway?

The 2.35 Kendas should be fine. I run 2.5 Nevegals on my XCE; they fit fine and are fanfreakingtastic.

Let us know how you like the Burner. It's all I can do to not pick one up myself at these prices!
 

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Start slow and taper off
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My Burner...

I've got a Manitou Black that I flip between 100 and 120mm of travel. for the first month I had it I only rode it at 120mm, then the second month only 100mm. Now, I tend to flip flop between the two, usually leaving it on 100mm unless I know I'm coming to wicked descent. My last bike had 4 1/2 of travel with and identical design to the turner. Do I notice the 1" less? Once in a while, but I haven't found myself wishing for more, and can't even justify the 4" Paul rocker option for myself.

robotkiller said:
Considering jumping from a Heckler to a Burner...The Heckler is a great bike, but I truly do not use the bike to it's full advantage -- I'm hitting 2 foot drops maximum on it and I doubt I will be hitting much more than that anytime soon. I've started questioning whether the extra weight and the disadvantages of a single pivot are worth it...Few questions:

I do love having a 5 inch fork- would the burner be out of whack with this?

One of my main problems with the Heckler is that it doesn't have the most sensitive small bump compliance and the brake locks out the suspension on descents. I assume the burner climbs awesome, but how does it descend?

thanks.....
 

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mad aussie
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Damn, where did those wheels come from? That takes me back quite a ways. I had a set of HED jet(I think) wheels on a Softride catapult beam bike back in the early to mid 90's.
Those wheels are pimping. You could cruise through any trailer park and pick up women on that machine :D
 

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N. Utah trail?

CrashTheDOG said:
This weekend I rode some classic, alpine, fast, smooth, tight, did I mention fast, singletrack up in N. Utah. The kind of singletrack that makes you feel like you're going mach-12 as the elevation quickly falls away and the trees buzz past, with railed corners that suck up the suspension as the G's kick in with nary a finger on the brakes. You know the stuff that just puts a stupid grin all over your face and reminds you why you wished you never moved away from alpine country in the first place.
Just out of curiosity, what trail did you ride in N. Utah? I live in salt lake and am always interested in what people think of the trails here.
 
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