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So how do they compare? Power, modulation, reliability, noise, pad/rotor clearance issues, pad life?

These seem to be getting very popular on Spots and Packs so give me the lowdown, please ;)
 

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boy, what would we do here with out tscheey to tell everyone to go do some searches. Apparently he has answered every question known to Mt Biking and if you can't find it then you are officaly a newbie.
 

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Bodhisattva
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Been riding Louise FR for 3 years and just bought my first set of J7's.

Briefly, power & modulation about equal.
Reliability on Maguras is excellent. Too early to comment on the Avids. Ditto pad life. The "performance" Magura pads last several months in dry conditions, less in wet. "enduo" pads last longer with a slight loss of performance, but not a big deal. "Enduro" pads are also quieter in the wet, although squeal is generally minimal. Tscheezy has had problems with squeal up in Alaska with the Juicys and has posted that the Maguras are far more quiet.

Magura's customer service is second to none.

The biggest minuses on the FR are Avid's strength: setup & lever ergonomics.
Setting up the Avid is a no-brainer. Magura requires use of spacers, which isn't a big deal, but isn't as simple as the Avid. Plus, depending on your fork & frame, the Magura may require facing with a gnann-o-mat. The Juicy lever is also far superior to Louise and I like the pad contact adjust knob. On the other hand, Avid placed the lever reach-adjust screw in a terrible location which is a bit tricky to get to once the grips are installed and virtually impossible to access with a Crank Bros or similar multitool.

Honestly, you can't go wrong with either.
 

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The Squeaky Wheel said:
Been riding Louise FR for 3 years and just bought my first set of J7's.
The Juicy lever is also far superior to Louise and I like the pad contact adjust knob. On the other hand, Avid placed the lever reach-adjust screw in a terrible location which is a bit tricky to get to once the grips are installed and virtually impossible to access with a Crank Bros or similar multitool.

Honestly, you can't go wrong with either.
I totally disagree with the Juicy lever being far superior to the Louise lever. Magura brakes use a radial master cylinder, which as any of you motoheads will probably know, gives the lever a mechanical advantage over a non-radial master cylinder. All other things being equal (oil viscosity, master to slave cylinder diameter ratio, etc.) a radial master cylinder is better. While the pad contact knob seems like a good idea on paper, it is a solution to a problem that neither I nor anyone else I know is having, and is also in a somewhat precarious position should the lever take an impact. While I personally believe the Louise lever is terribly ugly, and the lever ergonomics could use some mild refinement, I argue that it is superior to the Juicy lever.

Really, no one gives Magura the credit they're due. Radial Master cylinders combined with a one piece caliper, wavy rotors that are properly licensed by Galfer (Hayes fans take note, your brake manufacturer pretty much told Galfer to go f*** themselves with their intellectual property laws.), hydrophobic as opposed to hydrophilic (sp?) fluid, small parts availability, the list goes on.
 

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No, that's not phonetic
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I'm with Squeak on the lever ergonomics. That is obviously personal taste. I also like the pad contact point adjuster on the Juicys. Last night I had to rebleed one of my rear Louises to correct a pad contact issue (forcing a lot of fluid into the system which was not "recovering" when I released the lever). I would not have had to do that with the Juicys. I have ridden a few sets of Hayes with different pad contact behavior left and right. Even if you did bust the red star knob, it does not affect the brake's operation.

They are both cool, but if I had a choice I would run Juicys. I have a lot of time on each system. I had 2 sets of Juicys and now have 3 sets of Louises/FRs. The theoretical advantage to a "radial master cylinder" really means squat when all you know is how the brake operates in the real world. I would have to give the Juicy the slight edge in basically every single category other than wet-weather squeal, and that has nothing to do with the master cylinder.
 

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carpe mañana
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Aren't Louise FRs a bit lighter than Juicys? It is minor, if at all, I know, but in case Paul5s cares. As of my personal .02 on the matter, I'll start off by saying that I haven't ridden the Juicys, so I have a heavily biased opinion here. The only thing I can say is that the lever feel on the 05 Louise FRs is by far the best I have ever experienced (out of Hayes, Hopes, other Maguras). Modulation is superb, I run 210/190 and stopping power is fantastic. I've run Magura Marta SLs and Louise FRs for a while and I find the bleed to be a snap, 10 minute job tops, and it is completely a set it and forget it deal. I've never had unequal lever feel / pad engagement between front and rear. Never heard them squeal. Never had to reblead, once setup.

_MK
 

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tscheezy said:
Last night I had to rebleed one of my rear Louises to correct a pad contact issue (forcing a lot of fluid into the system which was not "recovering" when I released the lever).
Can you elaborate more? I'm sure mine will be fine after one lap on Porc rim next week, but I'm still getting a tiny bit of rubbing :rolleyes:

BL

PS - anyone gonna be in Moab/Slickrock/Fruita in the next two weeks?
 

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carpe mañana
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BikeLust said:
PS - anyone gonna be in Moab/Slickrock/Fruita in the next two weeks?
I'll be in Moab in two, weekend of 23rd for the MSC. I'll be sporting a hardtail, though.

_MK
 

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No, that's not phonetic
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One of my levers just pulled closer to the bar before engaging than the other. It was noticeable, but not terrible. I just don't like the asymmetrical feel it gave. I did a full bleed just to see if any bubbled came out, but none did. At the end, after putting the reservoir cap back on, I pushed fluid into the caliper REALLY hard from the syringe to advance the pads as much as possible before replacing the caliper plug. It seemed to do the trick just fine.

How many miles are on your brakes, BL? Mine rub a little now and then after I mess with them, but it seems to go away as the pads conform to the rotor. Just make sure both pistons are moving (one isn't stuck).
 

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did you bed in the pads?

I have some FR's on order 210 and 180.

The manual says that you hav e to brake hard from 20 mph...30 times!! in order to set the pads properly... apparently after that they last a long time and are immensly powerful....I hope.
 

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Bodhisattva
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Pushing the fluid hard at the end of the bleed with the rotor placed between the pads is one of the key's to Magura bleeding success. If you didn't use new pads then you may have a little trouble getting new ones installed in the future. If so, just remove the small allen screw at the caliper & let a few drops of blood leak out.

I don't know anything about all this talk regarding radial master cylinders & whether it has anything to do with the price of tea in China. Bottom line: these brakes are very similar in my eyes, but Magura or Dangerboy or someone needs to make some better levers.
 

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Bon Vie
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Not to hijack the thread, but I am also in the market for a new set of discs and I'm looking at these 2 systems. I run two sets of identical wheels with different tires for either more or less technical rides, and even though the wheels are the same I may need to adjust the pad contact point fractionally. On my current Avid mechs this is a no brainer and would assume it will be the same with the Juicies. Would I have to add/remove a shim if running the Louise FRs?
 

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carpe mañana
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PoKev said:
Would I have to add/remove a shim if running the Louise FRs?
Isn't pad contact adjustment effectively the distance between the pads and the rotor? Given that both pads engage, you keep the rotor in the center and adjust the amount they retract. Adding or removing a shim would only make the rotor off center.

edit:
Or do you mean when you swap the wheelset? In which case, yeah, you will most likely need a shim.

_MK
 

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Bon Vie
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Yes, this would be after swapping the wheelset. I'm thinking the Juicies would probably be the path of least resistance ;).

peace............
 

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No, that's not phonetic
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The "pad contact point" adjustment on the Juicys is a bit misleading. It only alters the amount of lever throw before the lever starts compressing the master cylinder, it does not actually change how far the pads sit from the rotor. With the Avid CPS system on the Juicys, aligning the caliper and rotor is very easy. I used to switch wheels a lot when I had the Avids, but I rarely do now because shimming the Maggies is a bit of a pain. Not undoable, but also not enjoyable. If you really have exactly the same hubs, you may be able to get away with not reshimming/adjusting, but who knows. You could always put shims under the rotors as needed to really get the two wheelsets spaced the same.
 

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carpe mañana
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Another way is to get the shims that are not circular with a hole in the middle, but are moon shaped with a small handle, so you just have to loosen up a screw a bit, throw in the shim and tighten up, 5 second job. I'll post a pic when I get home if you're intrested.

_MK
 

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Bodhisattva
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MK_ said:
Another way is to get the shims that are not circular with a hole in the middle, but are moon shaped with a small handle, so you just have to loosen up a screw a bit, throw in the shim and tighten up, 5 second job. I'll post a pic when I get home if you're intrested.

_MK
Even easier, semicircular shims are available. I've seen them at Mtn High.
 

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carpe mañana
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The Squeaky Wheel said:
Even easier, semicircular shims are available. I've seen them at Mtn High.
That's what I am talking about, moon shaped, I guess, new moon shaped would be more descriptive.

_MK
 
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