Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over the past few months I have posted here asking about various XC/all-mountain forks to replace the four year old Vanilla 125 on my 6" bike. I have finally narrowed it down to two forks and would greatly appreciate hearing some feedback, both pro and con, from owners or people who have ridden these 2006 model forks. Here are the two and what I view as their strong points.

-NIXON SUPER INTRINSIC
Pro: Lighter, standard QR axle (lighter and I don't need a new hub), 5mm more travel.

-PIKE 454 U-TURN
Pro: Maxle make for a stiffer fork, travel adjustment.


Thanks for your help :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Two days, 48 views and no replies :confused: Can't someone give me some good info and steer me in the right direction?

Thanks
 

·
Daniel the Dog
Joined
·
6,763 Posts
The Pike is considered the hot fork these days....

R332 said:
Two days, 48 views and no replies :confused: Can't someone give me some good info and steer me in the right direction?

Thanks
I owned a '05 Minute that really was a very good fork but tended to skip over small bumps; however, the high speed control provided by the excellent dampening is really very good. Nonetheless, Manitou seems to still be struggling with durability problems. However, I hear and read their customer services is quite good.

My small .02,

Jaybo
 

·
telemarc
Joined
·
293 Posts
To put it bluntly,
All my buddies including myself have removed our Nixon's from our reign's and installed other varios forks, the Pike being the most prevalent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
telemarc said:
To put it bluntly,
All my buddies including myself have removed our Nixon's from our reign's and installed other varios forks, the Pike being the most prevalent.
Yikes, that isn't exactly a glowing review for the Nixon :eek: What about the Nixon were you guys so unhappy with?
 

·
telemarc
Joined
·
293 Posts
Myself, I was not entirely unhappy with mine, until I lent it to my gal and put the new pike on. Pike is way more plush and yet can handle the big drops and get me out of trouble. I could not find the sweet spot with the Nixon Platinum but instantly found it with a few small adjustments in the Pike. Pike is definitely smoother.
Most of my riding partners hat trouble with the wind down on (I think it is the elite) that came on their reign 2 's . Travel would gradually wind down til it was at the bottom and they would have to stop and unwind it.They also could never seem to get the rebound the way they wanted it .Most of them are large guys,200 + lbs, so I don't know if this has anything to do with it.
I did use the travel adjust a lot but have learned to live without on my pike . I can still get up all hills the same as the Nixon just a little trickier.
Also we all had to send them in for the new dampening rods. I sent mine early as I got the first bike to come and missed little riding but some of the guys missed half the season with theirs or had to come up with other forks. Mind you my gals Fox Talus was no better as it took 2 months as well. Service in Canada sucks except for Marzocchi as they service in Vancouver.
But like I said I thought the Nixon was O.K. till I put the Pike on.
 

·
Bicyclochondriac.
Joined
·
14,609 Posts
R332 said:
Over the past few months I have posted here asking about various XC/all-mountain forks to replace the four year old Vanilla 125 on my 6" bike. I have finally narrowed it down to two forks and would greatly appreciate hearing some feedback, both pro and con, from owners or people who have ridden these 2006 model forks. Here are the two and what I view as their strong points.

-NIXON SUPER INTRINSIC
Pro: Lighter, standard QR axle (lighter and I don't need a new hub), 5mm more travel.

-PIKE 454 U-TURN
Pro: Maxle make for a stiffer fork, travel adjustment.


Thanks for your help :cool:
If you don't mind building up a new wheel, then the 20mm axle alone is worth going with the pike. I used to have a `03 Z1FR with a QR, and though the fork (especially the crown) was beefier than the Pike, the Pike tracks way better, and I think that is due to the Maxle. The travel adjust is, IMO, essential for a fork this long.

The Pike is a great fork, and very tunable for many different applications and tastes.

I have not tried a Nixon except the one on my friend's Riegn 2, and not for that long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
One Vote for Nixon, more

Yes I know Nixon has had some problems and as an early adopter I suffered through many of them. But that being said the new versions, are the best forks I have tried period.
The Nixon came in many flavors last year. The one I ended up with after many problems with other versions was a fixed Air (no IT), with TPC dampening and it has been great for over 6 mons. The IT versions are nice when they work but too complex and would fail over time, the 2005 SPV version, was horrible with no small bump compliance. As I said once I tried a fixed travel Air with TPC I was in heaven. The TPC although dated is one of the best dampening systems made.
This year they have a new Intrinsic damper. It flat out works, feels smooth and supple on the small stuff and gradually ramps up on the bigger hits to avoid bottoming out. The progressive ramp is great on a long travel fork like the Nixon.
If you don't need travel adjustment and want a reliable smooth feeling fork try the new Nixon Super. I have had one on the my new 6.6 for a few weeks now and I'm not switching.
HoJo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
HoJo said:
If you don't need travel adjustment and want a reliable smooth feeling fork try the new Nixon Super. I have had one on the my new 6.6 for a few weeks now and I'm not switching.
HoJo
HoJo,

Thanks very much for the good review and explanation. I was sold on the Pike but perhaps the '05 Nixons were the dud forks and the '06 models can't be grouped in with the older ones? I don't need to have travel adjustment so the Super w/Intrinsic could work for me. The Nixon is still lacking the Maxle of the Pike but I am sure it is still plenty stiff.

Has anyone else tried the '06 Nixon?
 

·
I dig trails!
Joined
·
5,590 Posts
The Nixon Elite comes with TPC+ for 06. I have not tried it but the long travel crowd loved it (It originated in 03).

I have run both TPC and SPV in Black forks and the damping to have is based on the riding style you do and what you want.

TPC is plush, plush, plush, especially at high speed but not very efficient for out of saddle climbs. If you sit and spin, and live for the downhill, look into this damping.

SPV has an initial firmness, then plush (if you set it that way), less butter on the downhill but very efficient for out of the saddle hammering (especially technical), eliminates brake dive and is consistent in high speed turns.

There is no platform AND plush fork by any manufacturer right now and won't be for years to come. Excitement about X or Y fork will always bounce from product to product but it still comes down to fork characteristics and how you ride. Focus on matching the two. The great posts on this forum give a good guide in what to expect from each fork.

Mr. P
 

·
MattSavage
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
I think it's too early...

There aren't enough people out there on 06 Nixons to get a fair comparison. So far everyone is comparing 05 Pikes with 05 Nixons of various models and releases.

I think you should hold off until YOU have a chance to compare both forks side by side on similar bikes. There are too many biased opinions, based on second and third hand information, to make an educated decision.

That being said...

I have test ridden both forks (extended parking lot tests and "cutting through front yard hill bombs", alley downhills...). The 05 Pike on a Iron Horse MkIII and the 06 Nixon Platinum on an Intense 6.6 Two totally different bikes, but sweet nonetheless. Being a Manitou man, I knew that the Nixon would take some time to break in before it could be considered sweet, brand new fork on a brand new bike Not a fair comparison. The Pike was super plush and feeling excellent. But then again, this was an 05 demo bike, so it has been ridden and broken in.

Having ridden an 05 Nixon Platinum w/SPV Evolve brand new(I didn't bother to experiment w/ the IT because it's not a feature I'm interested in), I can say that the Intrinsic 06 on the Intense was much more responsive to small bumps and stutters than even the Evolve of the 05. I haven't had a chance to ride either after the break in period, but I can only imagine how excellent the Intrinsic will feel once the fork is broken in and dialed.

Eliminating the 05 Nixon from the comparison, I think I'd take the 06 Nixon Super over the Pike. The Nixon wasn't quite as sweet as the Pike because it wasn't broken in, obviously, but based on previous Manitou experience, I feel I have a pretty good idea of how it'll feel once it is broken in. I like the fact that it is available with QR lowers, making transportation easier and less expensive. The ease of adjustability is another factor for me. I found it easier to get good settings quicker on the Nixon. I couldn't get the Pike to be as less sensitive to pedal feedback than the Nixon. The Nixons platform is perfect for trail riding for a 190 lb guy. A significant amount of bob when hammering up over a rise, but not nearly as much as the Pike. The Pike felt more like my Sherman, and the shop guy, a Rock Shox Soldier, just couldn't get it dialed better for me. Both felt excellent when spinning in the saddle. A couple two to three foot flower bed drops yielded excellent compression characteristics of the airsprung Nixon. The Pike felt more coil oriented, which is what alot of people like, but I used pretty much all the travel off a mere 3' ledge. The Nixon left me with more than an inch to spare, with only a couple clicks in on the volume adjuster.

I tried to be as objective as possible when comparing the two forks, but maybe my opinions are still a bit biased. I didn't have time to properly learn how to setup the Pike on my own, but I'm not going to spend $500.00 to learn. I know alot about Manitou forks, I've been riding them for years. I really want to get a Pike, because it is a sweet fork, there's no denying that, but it's hard to break away when I feel Manitou makes a product that is comparable or even possibly better.

It's up to you to decide. Either way, you can't go wrong, I think one of the main deciding factors is 20mm or QR. It would suck to want to go out of town to ride with friends, but your bike won't fit on his racks and you can't put it in the trunk, and you left your $60.00 20mm fork adapter on your other car which you girlfriend took for the day. So you stuck riding your XC hardtail or SS on a ripping 15 mile single track descent while all your buddies are smoking you on their 6 inch travel trailbikes.

Wait until you can test ride both. Ignore the fools that give you the one line response saying Manitou sucks or Rock Shox sucks or whatever.
 

·
MattSavage
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
R332 said:
HoJo,

Has anyone else tried the '06 Nixon?
I totally forgot that the 06 Elite has TPC+, which is in my opinion, the best of compression dampers. This years TPC+ is modified, over previous versions, specifically for long travel applications.

Last year I would have taken TPC+ over any SPV fork (many people even retrofit their SPV Shermans and Minutes with TPC+) and I still may, but the Intrinsic is getting very close.

The only thing differently I'd do with the Elite is swap the Rapid Travel Wind down with Rapid Travel II of the Shermans. Two settings, long and shorter, and two spring rates, plush and firm.
 

·
I dig trails!
Joined
·
5,590 Posts
mattsavage said:
I totally forgot that the 06 Elite has TPC+, which is in my opinion, the best of compression dampers. This years TPC+ is modified, over previous versions, specifically for long travel applications.

Last year I would have taken TPC+ over any SPV fork (many people even retrofit their SPV Shermans and Minutes with TPC+) and I still may, but the Intrinsic is getting very close.
Matt,

Manitou writes that TPC+ is "position sensitive" damping, but how does it behave on the trail? What is it's advantage? My vague memory of it is that it increases damping deeper in the travel, is that correct?

What is it's advantage over TPC or SPVe?

Thanks,

Mr. P
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
531 Posts
Thanks for the report mattsavage,
Do you know if the intrinsic cartridge can be retrofited to 05 Nixons?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It is great to see new information being added to this thread :cool:

I agree that the best and only true way for me to pick a winner is by riding both, but due to a variety of reasons (location, work schedule, etc) this just isn't going to happen :( I have to put my faith in the feedback from the members here and hope that I am being given good advice!

I have read about the TPC+, SPV, etc and on paper they all look great, however I can't choose a fork based on the cartridge specs.

My gut feeling is still the Pike, however if I did get a Nixon I am thinking the Super is the way to go because it is a 1/2lb lighter, unless the coil with the TPC+ really works that much better than air. I don't want to add much or any weight vs my Vanilla 125 which is why the Pike Air U-Turn and the Nixon Super are so appealing.
 

·
MattSavage
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
STS said:
Thanks for the report mattsavage,
Do you know if the intrinsic cartridge can be retrofited to 05 Nixons?
I don't see why not. It'll probably take a new rebound assembly as well to make it complete.

Right now, a new Volume adjuster and rebound assembly for SPVE costs around 75-100 bucks total, aftermarket, depending on the fork. So, I bet the Intrinsic would be slightly more than that.
 

·
Bicyclochondriac.
Joined
·
14,609 Posts
mattsavage said:
It's up to you to decide. Either way, you can't go wrong, I think one of the main deciding factors is 20mm or QR. It would suck to want to go out of town to ride with friends, but your bike won't fit on his racks and you can't put it in the trunk, and you left your $60.00 20mm fork adapter on your other car which you girlfriend took for the day. So you stuck riding your XC hardtail or SS on a ripping 15 mile single track descent while all your buddies are smoking you on their 6 inch travel trailbikes.
Whoa.., did this actually happen to you? ;^<

Maybe others have different experiences, but I ride with friends with 20mm axles and Lefty forks, (myself included for the past year) and in the 7 years I've been riding there has never been a single time somebody could not take a bike due to not having a QR. Worse case scenario you take both wheels off and stick it in the car somewhere.

But I guess if all the planets line up, (girlfriend has the car, AND you forgot the fork adaptor, AND you have to take your buddy's 2 seater sports car with no truckspace AND he only has fork-mount racks for the bikes, AND nobody has a cheap rack to throw on the back of the car) I guess it could happen.
 

·
MattSavage
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
Yeah, that's pretty much it.

Mr.P said:
Matt,

Manitou writes that TPC+ is "position sensitive" damping, but how does it behave on the trail? What is it's advantage? My vague memory of it is that it increases damping deeper in the travel, is that correct?
What is it's advantage over TPC or SPVe?
Thanks,

Mr. P
I believe, as the fork settles into its travel over a series of bumps, the additional piston prevents it from bottoming to hard on an additional hard hit. It's speed sensitive too. A high speed impact like that of a squared off edge like a rock or large root as you cruise down the trail, won't cause the fork to blow through its travel the way, say, a slow speed type impact like a wheelie drop off a ledge or the old parking lot bounce test would (speed in this case refers to the rate at which the fork reacts to input, not the velocity of the bike). This allows for very sensitive small bump compliance without compromising its ability to take hard hits. Normal TPC doesn't have the additional position sensitive piston to help prevent bottoming, but is every bit as sensitive to the small stuff. To further adjust compression dampening in a TPC+ fork you have to pull out the damper and fiddle with a small set screw. TPC forks are usually externally adjustable.

SPV controls the bottoming through its (air)volume adjuster, and slow speed inputs like pedaling forces are cancelled out by the air pressure against a valve, that's why they feel kind of knotchy or unplush at the first hit, because it takes X amount of force to get that valve to open against the air pressure. The volume adjuster reduces the amount of oil that can be displaced as the fork moves through its travel, that's what prevents bottoming, and gives it a nice ramping feel at the very end of the stroke, making it feel like it has more travel than it does.

TPC+ is very similar in effect and feel to Marzocchi's HSCV, it's a perpetual battle, determining which is better. Neither in my opinion.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top