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Perpetually single track
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About 15 mtbers showed, 4 spoke (I think). OSAC got the basic message that we were concerned about the going ons of the JCOS rangers. We got an agenda item added to the TUTF agenda for Oct. (held quarterly).

Thanks to all who showed and talked.
 

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MFin' Princess
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J\V said:
I'm sure Dave Cohen and Terry will provide a full report, but in my estimation, it went extremely well. Although OSAC didn't officially add it as an "agenda item" as Dave Cohen requested, Greg Stevinson did generously devote about 30 minutes to our public comment, and there was some good dialogue.

In the end, the cycling community is on record:

- Requesting that Jeffco provide clear definitions and better communication on their expectations for "yielding,"
- Offering to work with Jeffco rangers to educate riders and address infractions by way of volunteer patrols utilizing COMBA and IMBA members,
- And finally, and very importantly, requesting that Jeffco allow time and procedures for full public comment and input before any reduction to mtb access at Apex is implemented.

OSAC members appeared to voice their agreement for these recommendations. Ralph Schell (Open Space Director) even voiced his support for the idea that standards should be implemented for all user groups, helping user communities to learn to work well together. I imagine all of this will be detailed and available in their meeting minutes.

In my estimation the timing of this was perfect. Although no imminent changes at Apex were in play (that we know of ...) it is clear that Jeffco was/is looking to address the problem of increasing complaints at Apex -- complaints that were at least in some part generated directly in response to a biased and inaccurate editorial piece recently printed in Jeffco Magazine. By making the biking community's comments and adamance for continued and uninfringed mtb access known now -- before changes that negatively affect bike access at Apex were made -- is surely a positive thing.

Big, big thanks to all who spoke. Dave Cohen and Terry did a stellar job representing our interests.
 

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Meeting was amazing. The JeffCo commissioners all listened attentively to what the mountain bikers had to say and all came to the personal realization that their views of mountain biking were discriminatory and evil. They then proceeded to eliminate any bad thoughts of alternate day closures from their minds, banned hikers and equestrians from all JeffCo trails, and pledged to dedicate $10,000,000 to create 100-plus new mountain biking only centers, each with 50 miles of trail minimum (and with no annoying waterbars) in the county by the end of 2007. Each station will have a bike wash, a self serve work station, and hot college girls serving burritoes and beer to riders for free. And then they gave all mountain bikers at the meeting a hot-off-the-oven chocloate chip cookie, size large.
 

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Yes, and they agreed that light-colored spandex wearers would be immediately put on the Nuisance List and carried off the trail after being wrapped in a tarp.

The meeting went well. I've seen where equestrians and bird watchers have closed trails to mtn bikers even though they speak all nicely and cooperatively during the group meetings. Our inaction and implicit trust in other user groups led to that. On the other hand, those groups worked diligently (by inviting officials to lunch/dinner and with a barage of calls and letters) to exclude us by showing how "diruptive" bikers could be to trails and wildlife. After several of these behind-the-scene badgerings, the officials gave in. We did not even know this was happening till it was too late. The officials here seem to be much more professional and understanding and do not appear to be the type to be swayed. I was impressed by the fact that they spent so much time listening to us as trail users with equal rights.

Regardless, we need to be involved in these meetings consistently and offer to help build/maintain trails frequently, especially when we know that the county is considering a purchase. As long as we provide value to them, they will always see us mountain bikers in a positive light.

On another note, that Mexican band at Tequila's was outta control :D
 

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bacon! bacon! bacon!
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Pluto Pilot said:
Meeting was amazing. The JeffCo commissioners all listened attentively to what the mountain bikers had to say and all came to the personal realization that their views of mountain biking were discriminatory and evil. They then proceeded to eliminate any bad thoughts of alternate day closures from their minds, banned hikers and equestrians from all JeffCo trails, and pledged to dedicate $10,000,000 to create 100-plus new mountain biking only centers, each with 50 miles of trail minimum (and with no annoying waterbars) in the county by the end of 2007. Each station will have a bike wash, a self serve work station, and hot college girls serving burritoes and beer to riders for free. And then they gave all mountain bikers at the meeting a hot-off-the-oven chocloate chip cookie, size large.
You spelled burritos wrong. :rolleyes:
 

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Pluto Pilot said:
Meeting was amazing. . . And then they gave all mountain bikers at the meeting a hot-off-the-oven chocloate chip cookie, size large.
lemme guess, you had one of the BIG margaritas at tequila's beforehand?
;)

ibm/tvc summed it up well-- we went in knowing there wouldn't be discussion (yet) nor any action items; however, we got our points "on the record", and expressed our willingness to be a part of the solution (and not just be seen as part of the problem).

thanks again for all who attended.
:thumbsup:

{i think this calls for a ride at apex soon, eh?}
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the reports, and thanks to all who attended. Well done! :thumbsup:

Coming off of Apex today there were doing their Usage Poll, so I finally got to fill one out. They are definitely listening, and from the poll, it would appear they are still trying to determine if they actually have a problem or not, as well as gathering opinions on potential mitigation strategies.

So how was Tequila's for those of you who hadn't been there? That almost hurt the most, not being able to have a marg with you all... I could eat a quart of their cabbage salsa, that stuff rocks!

-J\V
 

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Thread Terrorist
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I think everyone summed it up well. The only concern was that they mentioned that NO BIKERS WERE GIVEN TICKETS!!! just warnings. I know this is the internet, but so far, there has been no evidence that tickets were handed out. If this is not the case, then they have some serious apologizing to do.

In My Opinion, I think we went and complained out of turn, ; without facts, real witnesses, and too much hearsay.

Tequila's is okay, BTW.
 

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IndecentExposure said:
In My Opinion, I think we went and complained out of turn, ; without facts, real witnesses, and too much hearsay.
Nah, it was good to show that there are mountain bikers who are paying attention to what the open space park rangers are doing and that we are interested in helping.

If not yielding to someone who's not even on the trail gets you a warning and put on the black list, that's enough to get me to show up - actual ticket or not.
 

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Education and more of same

Flyer said:
Yes, and they agreed that light-colored spandex wearers would be immediately put on the Nuisance List and carried off the trail after being wrapped in a tarp.

The meeting went well. I've seen where equestrians and bird watchers have closed trails to mtn bikers even though they speak all nicely and cooperatively during the group meetings. Our inaction and implicit trust in other user groups led to that. On the other hand, those groups worked diligently (by inviting officials to lunch/dinner and with a barage of calls and letters) to exclude us by showing how "diruptive" bikers could be to trails and wildlife. After several of these behind-the-scene badgerings, the officials gave in. We did not even know this was happening till it was too late. The officials here seem to be much more professional and understanding and do not appear to be the type to be swayed. I was impressed by the fact that they spent so much time listening to us as trail users with equal rights.

Regardless, we need to be involved in these meetings consistently and offer to help build/maintain trails frequently, especially when we know that the county is considering a purchase. As long as we provide value to them, they will always see us mountain bikers in a positive light.

On another note, that Mexican band at Tequila's was outta control :D
Also, "us mountain bikers" is a much more pervasive multi-national group than the bigoted article from the buzz would lead one to believe. Mountain biking is a vehicle for aerobic activity and to see much more of nature in one trip. You breath more of the good mountain air and see more of nature's wonders (sometimes, up close, face down!)
Being, as the article stated, a "hiker, walker, runner (with my rescue dogs), bird watcher, naturalists, AND senior." Also a Sierra Club, Wilderness Society, Nature Conservancy (among others) as well as IMBA member.
But like many hate fat people in white spandex, people that don't control their dogs(dog's ****) and shuttlers (often fat in white spandex.);)
When 60 cars in parking lot at apex and 40 of them are mountain bike groups, there is just no way to get around the educate part instead of ban....
(I'm still working on my response to the article)
[email protected]

Today !
http://liveearth.org/event.php
Now, if I can get microsoft's web concert feed to work !
:eek:
Hey it works !
http://entimg.msn.com/i/ExperienceD...thLive&g=9f240073-cf25-4402-bbb0-bd77c597c4ab
 

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MFin' Princess
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crashtoomuch said:
Nah, it was good to show that there are mountain bikers who are paying attention to what the open space park rangers are doing and that we are interested in helping.

If not yielding to someone who's not even on the trail gets you a warning and put on the black list, that's enough to get me to show up - actual ticket or not.
Agreed.

IE, It's not about "the tickets" at all ... it's about out why these operations are being set up, what steps Jeffco is currently considering to mediate problems, and ensuring continued and uninfringed bike access at the park. That's the point.

The tickets (warning tickets or tickets with fines) are all "tickets." Every single one of them record into a database to register "nuisance riders" ... and using stings to collect more of them using overzealous rangers with willy nilly definitions of "yielding" ought to get every bikers' attention -- particularly when multiple Jeffco sources, our own TUTF mtb rep included, have repeatedly confirmed that Apex conflicts are getting a ton of focus right now, with ideas for management already underfoot.

But I'm restating the obvious. The meeting was extremely well timed, and productive for user group.
 
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