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Alright, gonna keep this one short. How much sodium and other electrolytes have you found you need on rides and where do you get it from?

I have heard 400 mg of sodium per hour is a good starting point but there are not many supplements with that much in there. Nuun tablets seem to have a good bit as does V8 and Pringles...lots of options out there.

Got a hot 12 hour coming up, bringing some pickles with me! What works for you?
 

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i've tried endurolytes and they haven't worked too well. I tried thermolytes yesterday (300mg/2capsules) and I didn't cramp at all...not even a hint of it. I'm going to stick with these the rest of the summer.
 

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endurolytes have always worked well for me in hot situations. you have to remember that potassium plays and important role in hydration. thermolytes have only moved me deeper into dehydration due to the massive solo salt bomb.

i believe it all depends on the current make up of your blood at that given moment, to determine the amount of fluid absorption. so if i have this right and you are very dehydrated (lower blood volume, higher concentration of electrolytes) then for fluids to absorb they will also need similar properties...so thermolytes (and pickles) may actually work in this situation. however they will likely need to be consumed with a fair amount of water.

but i think the issue is to not get dehydrated in the first place right?

i'm no nutrition expert here...but ~400mg/hour seems to work well for me. if it's a super hot day i will usually start popping endurolytes every hour or every other hour. nuun tablets would probably work as well, but i haven't tested them in the race setting....the only drawback with those is you will need to find carbohydrates somewhere else.

if i were you i'd focus on getting in the correct amount of fluids/hour with a modest electrolyte balance. i think most people usually mis-diagnose the issue as electrolytes when their overall fluid intake is sub-par.
 

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Used Endurolytes (4 per hour) for a 155 mile road ride out of Fresno, CA this weekend; it was 110f out there and I didn't cramp at all. I drank gatorade in the morning while it was fairly cool and switched to dilute Heed when it warmed up later.

YMMV but it works for me.
 

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Johnny K said:
Alright, gonna keep this one short. How much sodium and other electrolytes have you found you need on rides and where do you get it from?

I have heard 400 mg of sodium per hour is a good starting point but there are not many supplements with that much in there. Nuun tablets seem to have a good bit as does V8 and Pringles...lots of options out there.

Got a hot 12 hour coming up, bringing some pickles with me! What works for you?
Rec. from the ACSM and others between 450-900 mg/L. Upper range if you are a 'salty sweater" and /or is hot and humid.:thumbsup:

Note: sodium is the main extracellular electrolyte and it is the one that you should focus on... potassium is something to consider in a much lower quatity than sodium during endurance events > 8 hours...
Get something on the cheap side, don't waste money on this.... regular salt can be added to your drink to increase concentrations and potassium could be added just getting some fruits
 

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Sarah K said:
You need magnesium too. I don't think a big dose of sodium without some potassium, magnesium and chloride does much good. You need all four of the electrolyte components.
Mg plasma concentrations are around 1.5-2.1 and the sweat concentration is around 1-4 mmol/L while sodium plasma concentrations are between 137-144 and the sweat concetration between 40-80 mmol/L.
You loose more calcium than magnesium through sweat and quote "the available evidence indicates that the only electrolyte that should be added to drinks consumed during exercise is sodium (in the form of sodium chloride)"
Burke and deakin. 2006. Clinical Sports Nutrition

You can read the ACSM (American College of Sports Medicine) position stand (2007) on fluid replacement. There you will learn a little bit of why we need sodium (usually added as Na chloride) and some potassium in events that last many hours (not the usual spin around) magnesium is not important to replace during exercise because the losses are extremelly small
Hope it helps

http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/pt-core/template-journal/msse/media/0207.pdf
 

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I don't have peer reviewed literature right here to quote but my - admittedly limited - understanding is that basing electrolyte replacement on sweat profiles may not be enough of an answer. If an athlete is already deficient in magnesium or potassium and has extra stores of sodium; their sweat will reflect that as the body tends to sweat out what it has excess of and retain what it is lower on, thus sweating out large amounts of sodium and smaller amounts of potassium and magnesium. (It is easy to imagine that a typical American diet is high in sodium and low in magnesium and potassium found mainly in leafy green vegetables). So, replacing large amounts of sodium will indeed replace what is lost but not necessarily provide what the athlete may need.

My personal experience has been that when I began to supplement continuously with magnesium, I fared better in the heat and was able to recover and train more effectively.

Of course none of us will respond the same to any of this stuff. Just offering my personal experience and research.
 

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I assume that you are trying to avoid cramping. I had really bad cramping issues in the past.....and this is what works for me

1. up my hydration 2 weeks prior to the race, but I'm always hydrating and have a water bottle in my hand.
2. Take a multi-vit daily
3. 1 or 2 bottles of water with Nuun the day beofre the race
4. 1 or 2 endurolyte tablets before I go to bed the night before the race.
5. 2 endurolytes 1hr before the race and 1 every hr or so
6. 2 "Anti Fatigue" tablets 1hr before the race and 1 every hr or so
7. and MOST IMPORTANT is stretching different leg muscles before, while on the bike, and after.
 

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One of the adaptations of training (and getting acclimated to heat) is that athletes loose more water and less electrolytes.
While if you are magnesium deficient you should address the issue (not uncommon, I agree), there is no need to include magnesium while exercising because it is another electrolyte in the solution and it would increase osmolality of the solution and decrease gastric emptying.
Taking a multivitamin is always a good think to "cover' your back.
Potassium is widely available in fruits and vegetables (among many others).
Low levels of potassium are rare if there is no other problem than just poor intake and it could cause arrhythmias
 

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Through my race drink mixes I take on board every hour

- 410mg Sodium
- 74mg Potassium
- 65mg Magnesium
- 33mg Calcium
 

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Sarah K said:
You need magnesium too. I don't think a big dose of sodium without some potassium, magnesium and chloride does much good. You need all four of the electrolyte components. And stocking up beforehand will help too - not just once it's hot out and you're on your bike.
Stocking up a day or two before might help, but in the WEEKS prior, having a low sodium diet is best. There is research (somewhere, I forget) that states the body will adapt by excreting additional sodium if you stock up. By lowering your sodium intake, your body will adapt to excreting less - which is what you want during a hot event, since this makes it easier to maintain appropriate levels. Most americans sodium intake is way too high on a day to day basis.
 

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FlavC said:
Stocking up a day or two before might help, but in the WEEKS prior, having a low sodium diet is best. There is research (somewhere, I forget) that states the body will adapt by excreting additional sodium if you stock up. By lowering your sodium intake, your body will adapt to excreting less - which is what you want during a hot event, since this makes it easier to maintain appropriate levels. Most americans sodium intake is way too high on a day to day basis.
OMG let me guess: you read that in 1873, you actually never understood what the research said (by the way, who said that all peer-review journals studies are good) or obviously you have no idea what you are talking about...:nono:
Be my guess, deprive yourself of sodium and don't take it on an endurance event, I will pass you smiling while you cramp

Funny
 

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BBW said:
OMG let me guess: you read that in 1873, you actually never understood what the research said (by the way, who said that all peer-review journals studies are good) or obviously you have no idea what you are talking about...:nono:
Be my guess, deprive yourself of sodium and don't take it on an endurance event, I will pass you smiling while you cramp

Funny
Thanks for the smart-ass reply which reminds me why I stopped posting to these forums a long time ago...

I said it was a good idea to limit sodium intake on a average, daily basis. I didn't say to abstain from taking sodium during an endurance event. If you consistently overload on sodium, then your body adapts by getting rid of excess more quickly. With normal levels of sodium intake, your body has no reason to adapt towards getting rid of the extra more quickly (no extra to get rid of). So, on race day, you CAN increase your intake AND have (theoretically) less losses through sweat.
 

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FlavC said:
Thanks for the smart-ass reply which reminds me why I stopped posting to these forums a long time ago...

I said it was a good idea to limit sodium intake on a average, daily basis. I didn't say to abstain from taking sodium during an endurance event. If you consistently overload on sodium, then your body adapts by getting rid of excess more quickly. With normal levels of sodium intake, your body has no reason to adapt towards getting rid of the extra more quickly (no extra to get rid of). So, on race day, you CAN increase your intake AND have (theoretically) less losses through sweat.
Sorry about that, I've been a little "edgy"... just tired of reading BS and crazy unscientific stuff....
just in case to clarify... your kidneys will get in charge of the extra sodium, filtering it (I won't go about hormonal control involved)
We agree that Americans have a high sodium diet but we are talking about endurance athletes who train long hours..... also the topic is hot and humid which makes things more complicated from a thermal perspective. (Sodium becomes even more important)
FYI, one of the adaptations of acclimization to heat in athletes is to sweat more (to release more heat) and decrease the electrolyte content. If you get more sodium in your diet your kidneys will have to mork more and if you get less then you will excrete less.
Recommendation from the ACSM (American College of Sports Medicine) and other renown sport institutions recommend between 400-800mg sodium per liter during endurance exercise:thumbsup:
 

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BBW said:
Sorry about that, I've been a little "edgy"... just tired of reading BS and crazy unscientific stuff....
just in case to clarify... your kidneys will get in charge of the extra sodium, filtering it (I won't go about hormonal control involved)
We agree that Americans have a high sodium diet but we are talking about endurance athletes who train long hours..... also the topic is hot and humid which makes things more complicated from a thermal perspective. (Sodium becomes even more important)
FYI, one of the adaptations of acclimization to heat in athletes is to sweat more (to release more heat) and decrease the electrolyte content. If you get more sodium in your diet your kidneys will have to mork more and if you get less then you will excrete less.
Recommendation from the ACSM (American College of Sports Medicine) and other renown sport institutions recommend between 400-800mg sodium per liter during endurance exercise:thumbsup:
Well, I can't find the original article that I'm thinking of, but I think it was related to aldosterone levels (the hormonal/kidney stuff you mention). Hammer Nutrition briefly mentions something similar in their marketing materials for Endurolytes. But, even if a low sodium diet prior to race day does not have widely accepted and proven benefits in terms of reduced sodium loss in athletes during endurance competitions,it does have general health benefits...so there's really nothing to lose. And if means I can get by on fewer E-Caps, S-Caps, and Pretzls then that is just a bonus :) . IMO, at least.
 
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