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Like I always say, 'Bicycles and Tricycles' by Sharp is the most modern and up to date book you can get on bicycle design. Published 1896.

One thing that many people need to understand, in the US and probably elsewhere, is that during the second world war massive scrap metal drives were conducted. Any junk bicycle or motorcycle were quickly consumed. We lost a lot of history at that time. It's like our burning of the library of Alexandria.

I've seen bicycles from the late 1800's in transportation & bicycle museaums. Truely, modern 'craft' builders really have a lot to catch up on in terms of attention to detail and metal working. Those bikes may be rickety, but the metal work is insane. Why? In the late 1800's most anyone with a bicycle was rich and needed the trendy new bike to ride around the parks and gardens of the time. Pure folly. Let's just say, their rides got pimped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria
 

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well if a points worth making, it's deffinately worth making 6 times, i totally agree, i really enjoy loooking through this book
http://www.cyclepublishing.com/cyclingbooks/db.html and spotting suspension, hydraulic brakes, cartridge bearing hubs and more elegant designs than anyone comes up with now, front lights being a particular favourite of mine (page 163/4 for anyone who's got the book)

like they always say, you can't reinvent the wheel
 

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reinventing

It's an interesting question whether contemporary builders discover old photos and designs and recreate them for themselves as their own, or if the ideas are original and we discover later the idea has been done before. Specifically to this post, I wonder if Joe A. created the double stays on his own without knowing about an older version or if he was inspired by an old picture or drawing. At this point he is the first or most known of the contemporary builders to use this idea so I feel he has some ownership. The first ones I saw were his and I would feel like I was stepping on his toes if I built frames for sale with that design, though I might build myself one. Maybe he would not care at all. The strut or segment fork that I make is a blatant copy of the Fat Chance Yo fork, but since they went out of business it seems that simple design is now basically open source and many people are using it. Bikes are simple enough that we can come up with what we think are original ideas and find them recreated over and over.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Yeah Wade I agree.. and this is a world wide phenomena... as far back as one wishes to go.. simultaneous/independent development... technologies, knowledge, etc.

A segmented fork I think is more of a meat and potatoes type development (I'm sure FAT wasn't the first). Someone was going to do it, as it made sense. The double stays though.... seems like more of a trying to be different for the sake of being different. I don't see why it would develop independently.. but hey, I could be missing something.


Either way... it's all been done. I almost put more worth in copying something old, than making something, thinking it's original, and not knowing the history. Assuming... not that that's the case here.. I have no idea. Certainly many of the folks who look at pics online make the jump that it's something totally original.

Anyways.. don't want to wade too deep into this.. just an interesting pic to share and another example of 'nothing new'.

-Schmitty-
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hah hah, there you go!

Other great books:

A Social History of the Bicycle by Smith

Riding High by Palmer

Bicycles (Le Biciclette) by Chronicle Books

-Schmitty-
 

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Thank you Dr. Welby.
I'm a bmx rat at heart. I really wanted a doublecross, but they didn't offer them in a jr size. I will probably build something to effect in the future.
Ahearne has built them too. This is my friend, Dani's bike.
http://www.ahearnecycles.com/pages/danicross.html
The paint began crackign at the chainstay/bb area, though.
 

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Re: Vulture

"It's an interesting question whether contemporary builders discover old photos and designs and recreate them for themselves as their own, or if the ideas are original and we discover later the idea has been done before." -Vulture

If I remember correctly, historians/anthropologists have a term for when two isolated, distinct cultures develope similar ideas/objects; "parallel evolution."

My point being, just because someone has invented something, doesn't necessarily mean someone else can't come along and unknowingly re-invent it.
 

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Good one on the elf, i couldn't remember the name. there's a guy around here,harold, i think he's 86 now, 10 or 12 year ago he had a bike built by a local frame builder around literally a drawing done on a diners napkin,, double seatstays and a full vertical seatube and a little interupted seatube that was further back and leaned back a bit (normal angle) ,kind of like some of the latest time trial frames i've seen.I got involved because front derailuers wouldn't work right on a vertical seatube harold had already had an old friend of his make a clamp it looked like delrin that didn't work right, i ended up making a machined clamp out of 7075 aluminum with all the correct angles.yeah everything has been done already,kind of.
 

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[
herbn said:
...I got involved because front derailuers wouldn't work right on a vertical seatube...
I get back from a Whistler, BC vacation in 2.5 weeks. Remind me to take the time to post the the Shimano framebuilder spec for front derailleurs on my site. They really spell out the range of use well.


PS. Herb- Discover punctuation and paragraphs. It helps the reader. The bike world has higher standards than the skaters.
 

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thanks but... Maybe it's my lack of punkyouhaitians that are confusing.The front deraileur clamp project is old stuff.I flattened out the back of a roady deraileur.Then made a clamp to go around the seat tube that had extra material hanging out in the direction where the front deraileur was going to bolt on . Then drew a line with a sharpie by holding the deraileur in line with the teeth of the chainring.It may have taken a few attempts at adjusting the angle, but i think the front and the back ends of the cage within about .010 equidistant to the teeth of the chainring. deraileur deraileur deraileur deraileur deraileur deraileur,i wish i had a pic of that bike and my clamp, it would be worth at least 20 of my run on sentences.
 

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as ive always said: "bicycle technology, is like beating a dead horse"
 
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