Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I understand that this may be a wide spread problem so I am posting it so people with a Fox rear shock on their Burner can check it out before any damage occurs. (Sorry if it is a bit too long)

It seems that Fox has supplied at least some (many?) shocks with reducer/spacers (the two little aluminum "top hats" that press into the eyelet at each end of the shock where the frame mounting bolt passes through) with improper tolerances. There are some that are too short at the part that inserts into the eyelet. This results in the two "top hats" not meeting in the middle. When the mounting bolt is torqued, the "brim" of the two top hats then pinches the shock eyelet, preventing the bushing from rotating when the rocker moves. What happens then is the rotation occurs between the rocker and the reducer instead of between the bushing and the reducer. Depending on how tight the bolt is torqued, there may be inordinate twisting load on the shock. I have seen one shock that was damaged because of too much lateral force on it. Also, an unlubricated aluminum to aluminum wear surface is clearly not optimal. The other tolerance that may be improper is the diameter of the part that inserts may be too large. This causes the same result- the rotation occurs between the rocker and the reducer, instead of the bushing as it was meant to.

I spoke to Turner about this and it is a problem they are aware of. They have been unable to get it corrected by Fox, and recommended that I machine down the spacers until they fit properly. They also suggested that I contact Fox and have them send me new spacers and bushings.

I then spoke with Fox who basically said there is no problem with their product. When I asked what clearance was specified between the brim of the top hat and the eyelet, however, they did not have a specified tolerance! They said after a five or six rides the bushing will loosen up. In my case it would not have since the reducers did not meet in the middle AND the diameter was too large. Even with 15ft/lbs on the bolt, ALL the rotation was ar the rocker. So nothing was moving in there to ever "loosen up".

You can check yours by putting a small dot with a Sharpie on the reducer and one on the eye of the shock and compressing the rear suspension. The two dots should move relative to one another. If not, the rotation is not happening at the bushing. Next look closely at the rocker/ reducer interface and see if the rotation is happening there.

I followed Turners advice and removed some material from the reducers. The way I did it was to put the reducer on a drill bit which fit the hole snugly. Before I slid it on I wrapped some tape on the bit. When the reducer slid onto the bit the tape wedged it on. I ran the drill in reverse (it stayed on better) and lightly touched the reducer with a fine metal file until the diameter was small enough to fit snugly into the eyelet. Be carefull not to remove too much. I then placed a very thin washer (.010") with the right size hole in between the two top hats, and reassembled.

Everything works as it should now. Much less stiction too. But this is clearly a gerry rigged arrangement not befitting a bike of this caliber. If this is a widespread enough problem, perhaps Fox will outfit us with proper reducers and new bushings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
850 Posts
steve3 said:
When it comes to the bushings, Fox is a bunch of snakes. They will never admit that their bushings wear fast and aren't made with great tolerances in mind. I love how immediately they say, "oh, we've never heard of that one before...that's because the suspension on your bike is a poor design...out of our control".

You also might want to check and see if there's a DH reducer kit available. It's got a steel thru shaft and lasts a long time. I almost got one for my old bike, but didn't. The Turner reducers are short, so side loads are minimized, but when replacement times comes up, I'm most likely going to get the DH reducers.
Ive also had similar experiences with fox shocks on other bikes. The solid steel shaft is much nicer than the 2 "top hat" spacers. On bikes with wide link plates (older konas) it also really helps keep the upper bolt from breaking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Fox reducers way to tight!!!

I had the same problem with my AVA Float on the 5-Spot. The reducers were so tight the shock felt like it had a 2000psi in it and would barely compress (even with no air in the shock). I removed the shock from the frame and clamped the shock at the reducers in a soft-jaw vice, those reducers were barely moving and the amount of force to get them to move was ridiculous. I worked the shock back & forth for 15 minutes or so to see if this would get things moving and all that happened was the reducers started to get hot do to the friction of the movement (this was not a good situation).

After talking with Greg and Casey @Turner they explained this is common problem with Fox and that it was out of there hands, but suggested I file the reducers down. So I called Fox to explain the problem and they told me they would just break-in ( NOT!!! ), I then explained to them how I had worked the shock in a soft-jaw and that the force to even get them moving was huge, they then said that I shouldn't have done that and intimated that I was somehow to blame, then they offered to send me new reducers+du bushings at full retail price (this was a brand new shock). Now I was getting PISSED OFF at the customer DIS-service and I then suggested they should warranty these parts since they never worked right to begin with, "We don't warranty reducers and du bushings, especially after being in a vice" with a condescending tone. Well at that point I knew I was flogging a dead horse and ended the phone call. The next day I spoke with the owner of my LBS and he sugggested trying the Fox service center in Canada ( I live in Toronto ), So I got in touch with Fox in Montreal and they were more than willing to send me the parts but they were back ordered and I would have to wait 3-6 weeks (forget that). I then called the Edmonton service center and with a e-mail of my reciept a very nice woman named Jill called the Fox rep that I had dealt with in the U.S. and okay'd the warranty parts for me (they're in the mail as I type this) THANK YOU JILL!!!

In case you're curious the part #s are
Eyelet Reducer. #213-26-000-F
DU Bushing. #003-01-001-A
These part #s apply to all Turner 4 bar bikes.

Anyway sorry I rambled on so long but this is what you're up against if you try to get the parts warrantied, I should have just taken the advice from Greg & Casey and filed them down a bit and saved myself the HEADACHE!!!!

I'll post again when I get the new hardware installed and let you know if the fit is any better.

PS. It looks like the Romic reducers and du are the same size can anyone with a pair of calipers confirm this??

Over and Out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Something's wrong Steve

If you made a line across all three- shock, reducer, and rocker - and there was no relative movement, something is wrong! There has to be movement somewhere. There should be relative movement between the shock and the reducer. There should not be between the rocker and the reducer.

steve3 said:
Ok, well I needed to grease my pivots anyway, so I checked out my reducers. I marked using white out the rocker arm, reducer, then shock eyelet. I simply made a line across. I have no separate movement, so I'm ok.

I was wondering if there was a particular run, or if the issues were with the Float RL's? I use a Propedal R.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sounds like the same arrogant attitude I got from Fox

With Fox, its like "they know what they are doing and you are some child who doesn't understand."

The other thing is while Turner customer service is generally awesome, I wonder why they send out frames with this problem when they are aware of it? It is easy to check them.

manic mechanic said:
I had the same problem with my AVA Float on the 5-Spot. The reducers were so tight the shock felt like it had a 2000psi in it and would barely compress (even with no air in the shock). I removed the shock from the frame and clamped the shock at the reducers in a soft-jaw vice, those reducers were barely moving and the amount of force to get them to move was ridiculous. I worked the shock back & forth for 15 minutes or so to see if this would get things moving and all that happened was the reducers started to get hot do to the friction of the movement (this was not a good situation).

After talking with Greg and Casey @Turner they explained this is common problem with Fox and that it was out of there hands, but suggested I file the reducers down. So I called Fox to explain the problem and they told me they would just break-in ( NOT!!! ), I then explained to them how I had worked the shock in a soft-jaw and that the force to even get them moving was huge, they then said that I shouldn't have done that and intimated that I was somehow to blame, then they offered to send me new reducers+du bushings at full retail price (this was a brand new shock). Now I was getting PISSED OFF at the customer DIS-service and I then suggested they should warranty these parts since they never worked right to begin with, "We don't warranty reducers and du bushings, especially after being in a vice" with a condescending tone. Well at that point I knew I was flogging a dead horse and ended the phone call. The next day I spoke with the owner of my LBS and he sugggested trying the Fox service center in Canada ( I live in Toronto ), So I got in touch with Fox in Montreal and they were more than willing to send me the parts but they were back ordered and I would have to wait 3-6 weeks (forget that). I then called the Edmonton service center and with a e-mail of my reciept a very nice woman named Jill called the Fox rep that I had dealt with in the U.S. and okay'd the warranty parts for me (they're in the mail as I type this) THANK YOU JILL!!!

In case you're curious the part #s are
Eyelet Reducer. #213-26-000-F
DU Bushing. #003-01-001-A
These part #s apply to all Turner 4 bar bikes.

Anyway sorry I rambled on so long but this is what you're up against if you try to get the parts warrantied, I should have just taken the advice from Greg & Casey and filed them down a bit and saved myself the HEADACHE!!!!

I'll post again when I get the new hardware installed and let you know if the fit is any better.

PS. It looks like the Romic reducers and du are the same size can anyone with a pair of calipers confirm this??

Over and Out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Not sure its the best way, But...

One way to get them out is to use a correctly sized pipe extractor a/k/a "easy out."
Just put the easy out in a vice and holding the shock in your hands turn it down until the easy out bites. Then lift gently while slowly turning the shock. The reducer should just walk out.

There will be some deformation where the easy out contacted the reducer, but this can be easily cleaned up with a flat file and a counter sink bit (don't put it in a drill- just spin it with your fingers). Plus it is inside the bolt hole where perfect smoothness or appearance is not important.

mtber36 said:
to get the reducers out? They are pretty soft and mangle easily it seems.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top