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Issue with CX-Rays on CK hubs WR1 Unions

1349 Views 21 Replies 9 Participants Last post by TylerVernon, Jan 22, 2022

angieri918

Discussion Starter · Jan 19, 2022

So im having issues with the spokes not wanting to remain straight when i go to tighten nipple. It seems as tho the spoke nipple interface has locked up somehow? i know that you have to use the special tool for bladed and even with that tool im getting spoke twisting right next to nipple. WTF is going on? Also, can anyone recommend a great wheel builder who will re-lace a used rim with something else? Im really wanting to re-lace it with Berds. I've snapped two spokes already from just trail debris coming in contact with spokes. Also, the lacing setup on my rear wheel is 2x. What difference will it make if i switched to a 3x pattern?

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Jayem

· #2 · Jan 19, 2022

I use a small dab of grease or anti-seize on the head of the nipple so it will turn easily. Where it can get tricky is on the threads of the spoke, you need something to lubricate IME, but traditional spoke prep and other stuff often hardens way too fast to work right, leading to binding/windup. What are you using on the threads?

junior77

· #3 · Jan 19, 2022

I’ll preface that I’m not an expert wheel builder…

But, I much prefer using the DT Swiss blades spoke tool rather than the park tool. Much longer engagement.

That twist looks very bad….is the wheel tension correct?

What nipples are you using and what spoke prep?

Potentially need some oil to reduce the friction.

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noapathy

· #4 · Jan 19, 2022

Did you run out of threads? (spokes too long) That'll stop 'em turning.

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eri

· #5 · Jan 19, 2022

noapathy said:
Did you run out of threads? (spokes too long) That'll stop 'em turning.

That'd be the first thing I'd check - are your spokes too long?

Undo the nipple, free spoke from rim, then finger tighten to see if you've used all the threads.

A good shop can cut more threads into a spoke.

I've had manky old alloy nipples gall at high tension even when lubed. I built with some sapim nipples that came pre-treated with a thread locker - made for a super easy build.

WHALENARD

· #6 · Jan 19, 2022

I'd start over for sure. Some of those spokes are pretty twisted.

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angieri918

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 19, 2022

This was a warranty replacement rear wheel built up by WR1. Ive had it on the bike since April. Only recently did i take the wheel in to have someone check to see how true it was and that's only because i noticed a couple spokes that were loose. It took him maybe 15 mins to get it running well. That was about a month ago. Apparently he didnt have any issues with spokes binding. I do recall when washing my bike i would spray the wheels pretty good and then use compressed air to blow the wheels dry. I must have blow any remaining grease off the threads.

I have some spare CX-Rays i plan to replace these with.

Jayem, what do you rec for spoke pattern and spoke choice for my rear wheel? Im 190-195lbs, i ride mostly NWArkansas trails and shuttle parks. Also go to bike parks in colorado, NM etc. The WR1 Union, CK hubs, CX-Rays, 180mm rotor, w/out cassette weighs in at 1,201g. I want it to be durable but light as possible. The bike it will be on is a HightowerV2. Any suggestions welcomed.

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Jayem

· #8 · Jan 19, 2022

No lighter than DTsupercomp spokes or equivalent, 3x. The front could use revolutions/lasers/x-rays due to less loading. No reason for bladed unless you like them more. I’m not very inventive with my spokes or patterns and I like solid wheels. I’ve built 28 spoke wheels for my XC bike, but for my all-mtn, 32 for sure. Consider even dt swiss comp spokes or equivalent. The butting is important IMO for a little stretch, but the lightest spokes is going too far, unless this is strictly an XC thing.

92gli

· #9 · Jan 20, 2022

Blowing lube off the spokes and nipples isn't a thing. It was a poor quality build, period. the spokes are too long.

With the type of riding you do, you would likely be way better off with a 3x wheel built with DT comps or sapim race, and brass nipples. Weight obsession with spokes and nipples is pointless unless it's an xc race bike (that actually gets raced, not Strava raced)

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angieri918

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 21, 2022

Just had this happen to me as well when trying to replace the spokes that were binding in the nipple. The nipple literally just fell apart when i put the spoke tool to it. Also weird, when measuring the spokes from the original build, they are measuring 278 and 279 whereas the new spokes on the warrantied wheel are measuring 280-281. Why they changed the length is something i def don't understand.

WHALENARD

· #11 · Jan 21, 2022

It's possible either length is acceptable. When I build carbon wheels (not that I build a lot, I'm speaking a sample size of one here, me), I use a good quality grease at every single nipple hole. I also lube every spoke thread and every nipple thread. Carbon, plus aluminum, plus steel, plus ammonia, or whatever is in your sealant, can have some very undesirable outcomes.

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Jayem

· #12 · Jan 21, 2022

WHALENARD said:
It's possible either length is acceptable. When I build carbon wheels (not that I build a lot, I'm speaking a sample size of one here, me), I use a good quality grease at every single nipple hole. I also lube every spoke thread and every nipple thread. Carbon, plus aluminum, plus steel, plus ammonia, or whatever is in your sealant, can have some very undesirable outcomes.

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Yeah, back in the day I used spoke prep that would harden and basically lock, but that lead to more rounded nipples and broken spokes and somehow my nipples STILL occasionally loosened up. Using a little lube, they don't loosen up and stay nice for a long long time.

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WHALENARD

· #13 · Jan 22, 2022

Jayem said:
I used spoke prep that would harden and basically lock, but that lead to more rounded nipples and broken spokes and somehow my nipples STILL occasionally loosened up.

Same.
Learned from experience, lubed spokes work better for me.

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angieri918

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 22, 2022

Ya I put some maxima assembly lube on the spokes I replaced. But ya there was definitely some corrosion going on in only a matter of months

TylerVernon

· #15 · Jan 22, 2022

Jayem said:
Yeah, back in the day I used spoke prep that would harden and basically lock, but that lead to more rounded nipples and broken spokes and somehow my nipples STILL occasionally loosened up. Using a little lube, they don't loosen up and stay nice for a long long time.

That's interesting. I've also always lubed my spokes and never had one loosen. I wonder why this is?

davec113

· #16 · Jan 22, 2022

angieri918 said:
Ya I put some maxima assembly lube on the spokes I replaced. But ya there was definitely some corrosion going on in only a matter of months

angieri918 said:
Just had this happen to me as well when trying to replace the spokes that were binding in the nipple. The nipple literally just fell apart when i put the spoke tool to it. Also weird, when measuring the spokes from the original build, they are measuring 278 and 279 whereas the new spokes on the warrantied wheel are measuring 280-281. Why they changed the length is something i def don't understand.

Often tire sealants can corrode Al nipples.

Jayem

· #17 · Jan 22, 2022

davec113 said:
Often tire sealants can corrode Al nipples.

Moisture or ammonia gas just helps, the galvanic potential of putting carbon and aluminum together is what does it. It's basically like running a battery. You are swapping ions like mad. Not to say you can't build with aluminum, but it's more of a ticking time bomb where you should plan on replacing them every 2 seasons IME. Maybe in some environments (extreme dry) with some extremely well protected spokes/nipples this wouldn't be as frequent, but even at 2 years I've seen some of them just turn to dust. That kind of goes back to your prep, you want something on there to help not bond the spoke to the nipple and the nipple to the rim is the main source of this conduction.

davec113

· #18 · Jan 22, 2022

Jayem said:
Moisture or ammonia gas just helps, the galvanic potential of putting carbon and aluminum together is what does it. It's basically like running a battery. You are swapping ions like mad. Not to say you can't build with aluminum, but it's more of a ticking time bomb where you should plan on replacing them every 2 seasons IME. Maybe in some environments (extreme dry) with some extremely well protected spokes/nipples this wouldn't be as frequent, but even at 2 years I've seen some of them just turn to dust. That kind of goes back to your prep, you want something on there to help not bond the spoke to the nipple and the nipple to the rim is the main source of this conduction.

I haven't had issues with high quality anodized Al nips but I agree it's playing with fire!

Jayem

· #19 · Jan 22, 2022

davec113 said:
I haven't had issues with high quality anodized Al nips but I agree it's playing with fire!

I would grow extremely suspicious at 2 years. Worth pulling your tape and inspecting for any pitting, powder, signs of corrosion.

TylerVernon

· #20 · Jan 22, 2022

Using Sapim aluminium nipples and lots of grease, I haven't seen any corrosion. I grease the seat, threads, and top of the nipple. If my tape gets a leak, I strip the wheel and dry it before retaping. Also I ride mostly in the dry. All these steps were because of warnings I read online.

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