[matadorCE]

Found this super interesting, another excellent video from Steve at Vorsprung:
Dear Bike Industry... Tuesday Tune Ep 34 - YouTube

I'm genuinely surprised that there are no present standards for shock loading and shock misalignment. No wonder some bike models are known to destroy shocks (cough: stumpjumper : cough). I'm sure the initial high leverage ratios that most bikes use today in order to get good small bump sensitivity don't help this situation in the least.

 

[nmxtrdr]

Specialized employs the Take a Dump in a Box and Mark it Guaranteed business model.

 

[ARider]

Specialized is a shock serial killer, the 2010 Enduro started the whole concept of clevis mounts + crappy alignment.

I had one that was so bad that it would routinely unscrew air cans, kill seals, destroy shock shafts, and I even had it unscrew the piston on an RC4. Fun bike, but damn that thing ate shocks!

 

[Dougal]

Specialized is a shock serial killer, the 2010 Enduro started the whole concept of clevis mounts + crappy alignment.

1997 Ground Control AIM would like a word.

 

[ARider]

Oh man, that was a bad one in the dark days of mtb. Serious lack of engineering and or thought on that one.

And to add insult to injury, the head tubes would pop off like popcorn.

 

[Dougal]

Oh man, that was a bad one in the dark days of mtb. Serious lack of engineering and or thought on that one.
View attachment 1964371


And to add insult to injury, the head tubes would pop off like popcorn.

I had one for 3 years. Never had any frame issues but the first shock lasted 4 rides. Went through 5 warranty replacements and 5 rebuilds before I got it reliable.
Interestingly for my one the only shocks that leaked out the shaft head were the new ones that came in an oil soaked box. Most failures were internal.

I still see it being ridden around town occasionally by the kids/grandkids of the guy who bought it from me over 20 years ago!

 

[reo-fahrer]

but even current bikes might have some "issues".

this

resulted in

Propain Rage 2020, thread for this issue:

Super Deluxe Coil Beschichtung löst sich

Hallo, an meinem Propain Rage 29 2020 welches ich im Oktober 2020 neu gekauft habe löst sich an der Kolbenstange des Dämpfers die Beschichtung. Hatte jemand schonmal dieses Problem? Das Bike hat ca 20 Tage Bikepark gelaufen. Der Dämpfer hat noch keinen Service bekommen da Rockshox 200h/1Jahr...

www.mtb-news.de

 

[1813254617.th]

Oh dear, I knew many frames killed bearings due to poor tolerances. Shocks, too?

My friend's 2007 Jamis Dakar XCR Comp has extremely undersized bearing holes. The shock appears to be fine, thankfully. Well, as fine as a Fox Float R from 2007 can be, anyways.

 

[PHeller]

I still don't understand why so many bikes insist on this these stupid high leverage ratios. The only justification I've heard is that it's easier to have a One Size Fits All shock tune on a high leverage bike than on a low leverage bike.

 

[matadorCE]

I still don't understand why so many bikes insist on this these stupid high leverage ratios. The only justification I've heard is that it's easier to have a One Size Fits All shock tune on a high leverage bike than on a low leverage bike.

I thought it was to have good small bump sensitivity at the top of the travel and near the sag point plus the ability to have a more progressive curve to prevent bottom out better than with low or flat leverage ratio?

 

[PHeller]

I've never heard about the relationship between leverage ratio and leverage CURVE, but I suppose with less ratio, you flatten the curve. That puts more of the bottom-out control into the shock.

Ironic, because it seems like in the efforts to make air shocks feel more like coils, that would be the easy option. Throw hydraulic bottom out into more shocks (like the upcoming Super Deluxe) and you can get more support without the high leverage ratio.

It should be noted that adding a few links to the mix can drastically change curves. You could, in theory, have a bike with 1:1 leverage ratio at sag that goes to 5:1 at bottom out (rising rate) or 1:5 (falling rate).

 

[Sidewalk]

I should inspect the shock on my E29...

(Ohlins coil)

 

[Jukka4130]

Apparently, most modern shocks operate best around a leverage rate of 2.6 or so. Most of the good suspension designs hover around this figure, although there are some outliers. It's possibly a good compromise since it's high enough to overcome static friction efficiently, couple of tunes fit a wide group or riders, and it does not overload the shock too badly in any way.

 

[Mudguard]

I should inspect the shock on my E29...

(Ohlins coil)

I've had my TTX on my Enduro for several years without issue. Its driven by a fairly long yoke. Ran the CTD for at least a year and a Monarch for a year without issue.
TTX does have a spherical bearing at the top though and the shock does move quite a lot through it's travel

 

[Mudguard]

I still don't understand why so many bikes insist on this these stupid high leverage ratios. The only justification I've heard is that it's easier to have a One Size Fits All shock tune on a high leverage bike than on a low leverage bike.

It will be to get the required amount of travel from the packaging I guess. If need a 150mm travel rear and you can only fit a 57mm stroke shock in there then the leverage ratio will start high. Put a DH stroke in at 70mm and it drops but no one does that.
Could go all the way back to Foes Curnett or whatever they were called at 2:1 ish!

 

[TylerVernon]

No, it's the lack of maintenance.

 

[CaveGiant]

Do spherical bearings remove the problem, or is it more complex?

 

[Chris2fur]

Do spherical bearings remove the problem, or is it more complex?

Yes in some cases. You should really watch the video by Vorsprung.

 

[Mudguard]

Do spherical bearings remove the problem, or is it more complex?

According to the video yes.
Edit. Beaten to it.

 

[Sidewalk]

I've had my TTX on my Enduro for several years without issue. Its driven by a fairly long yoke. Ran the CTD for at least a year and a Monarch for a year without issue.
TTX does have a spherical bearing at the top though and the shock does move quite a lot through it's travel

I've got about 5500 (800ish hours) miles on my 2018.