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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I really dug the Klein Mantra / Trek Y bikes and would love to find a modern replacement

BEAR WITH ME HERE

I used them for a specific purpose -- roubaix power commuting

Yes, the tech is dead for much of mountainbiking

but this is a different ride

Basically I'd hook em up with 1.25 tires , lock into a quasi TT style position on some full bar ends .
Basically, I found the designs let me stay seated through rumblies and the suspension was decently active (as much as URT is) b/c I'd be slung back, laid out and seated
The change in the pedal -to-saddle wasn't too bad as we aren't talking bit hits
and the bikes were light

I really enjoyed that and it got me around (I used em not as recreational/sport rides...it was my mode of transport and I lived off pavement)

sadly, Trek Ys seem to have ridiculous resale (thank you producers of "Pacific Blue") for a design that, I think many of us find, didn't work that well for its intended purpose
not to mention the larges are like hens teeth - and then I'm on a 10+ year old frame with an "off sized" shock in today's parts market

The Mantra is really more smaller-rider friendly shorter guys (the +6' geometry didn't scale up well)


While I've gone through a number of other rides (and ones that are better as pure MTB even for X/C) - I'm still looking for something like those old guys
but hopefully somewhat modernized

any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
borregokid said:
Lots of Mantra's and Y bikes on Ebay. The Y road bikes were made illegal for road racing so there went part of the demand
yeah, that was the Y-foil as opposed to the URT MTBs - I'm not sure if that had much impact on the death of the Y series MTBs though (different molds, but OCLV stuck around) - I think URT just got old quick for most of the market

sadly, one problem with the Mantras (well there are a couple) - is that the geomerty is really for shorter guys and the large sizes didn't upscale well (before the brought out the X-large, the Large and the med size difference was primarily made up by....the stem - and the XL wasn't all that XL) - so while the Mantra design itself had some niceness - there were always cockpit issues for 6'+ riders - IIRC Gary Klein's a relatively short dude -- geo sure feels like that

and in, both, the 20"ish sizes seem to come up less frequently (yes, I bid on the one that closed this weekend) and then it's a 10 year old unit [ugh, at a price that seems to reflect the zoot factor attached with those bikes when they were "the new ****"]
and the Y line got kind of diluted with lower end stuff which...well sucked even when new, so a lot of the ebay Ys are Y-11s or other "square tube triangle" models

(the wife's from Louisiana and we call the Y URTs "Katrina bikes" -- seriously, just walking around N.O. we were astounded how many of them were Y design URT -- granted, they all felt like they were made of pig iron :D as they were the K-mart derivatives)

Definitely old school stuff.

True dat - then again I'm a hasbeen so to me if it's got indexing it's new school :D
[ugh, bout 10 years ago a young gent mentioned to me he listend to "retro music" -- he listed, well, parts of my record collection :( ]

I think that era was kind of a sweet-spot for the type of riding I'm looking at in terms of parasitically benefiting from the development mainly aimed at the sport aspect...so we've moved to more specialized rides that operate better in their intended design contexts, but don't corss-over that well.
I was kin of hoping there might have been a little hold out niche somewhere
(sadly, even ti cycles killed the skookum a few years back and even as a URT-based design, it was more of a modern MTB feel/geo) oh they still have a few frames around...in medium of course

and that's the ***** of it -- I don't think those bikes were all that great at what they were designed to do, but there was an unintended application that they fit! sadly, the application is niche and doesn't even blip on the market

So I guess I'm more looking to see if there is a reasonable modern interpretation of that sort of design
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
yup - the skookum (they made an Al ver too)
they stopped making em basically for the same reason everyone else did -- people wanted a more reactive suspension for sport MTB
they still have some frames - sadly only in medium (story of my life)

ti cycles is abt 2 mi from my house :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
any thoughts on something like the Fango?

not a URT, but maybe something that'd work?

I haven't even seen one live let alone ridden one
 

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schwinn also made some urts back in the day, and the homegrowns were pretty nice. not alot of travel but doesnt sound like you need that much for what your doing...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
THE DESIGNER said:
URT evolved into something that GT and Mongoose currently use.

I believe Cannondale has been testing newly styled URT with different application tho.

http://www.bikemagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/6459
the idrive and such?
yeah, have they gotten lighter? (I tried em when they first came out and they seemed heavy) and wasn't quite as linear feeling as a more simple (primative ;D ) URT-- but then again that part's not a bad thing, back in the day (man I can't believe it was back in the day) I think that was one point that made URT initially seductive..it felt like a hardtaail (for good and ill) so, in w ay, it was a halfway step (which sadly, fits the mission parameters ) -- how's the old criticism go "the world's most expensive shockpost" :D

So I suppose that warrants another look now that the design has had some time

OMG that C-dale remind me of that bike that used a manitou fork as the seat stays!
that was a funky funky ride
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Now THAT'S an interesting take

Stuff like the klein had some problems too (besides the short guy geometry - though that was a big problem - used to ride a Mantra in this config - so this is actually a revisit of a type of ride I used to have -- which is what's got me on this trip :D )
One prob was that the travel of the BB had a fore/aft component and a decent amt of overall travel..now those kleins were already pretty forward (like past KOPS ) so, it was weird ( didn't seem like it'd be that bad, but it puts you forward enough where is was pretty much at the edge and esp with the saddle jacked for pedal stroke - so there was some sensitivity)
hell, I even had a powerpost on it at one point to get enough setback to compensate

that and distance of the BB from the pivot definitely made it solid (I think the operating theory was that,longitudinally to the bike, the BB to pivot distance was short compared to the rear wheel so that, int terms of vertical travel - mass on the pedals should be small compared to the wheel
but, in practice, I kinda found the moment of that large distance from the pivot did adversely effect the activity in the suspension pretty much in any condition

The tale of the Mantra - I don't think it was a bad bike, though I wouldn't personally recommend it for 6+' riders.
I was originally seduced, I suppose for the very reason that it felt "hardtailish" and that the suspension worked almost more as a "mistake eraser" (I found it still worked better in a trad hardtail riding style...jink it, try to avoid the hit, etc)
as an MTB, it was an endo generator and the problems of URT as a truly "active" suspension were pretty apparent (I think b/c of that large distance of the pivot point)

so I eventually retired it to urban assault -- given the geometry problems and such, I eventually found that it was easiest to ride it in a mash style..a pal of mine pointed out that I was basically riding the rear trig like a funky unicycle (with the force of the bumps not being xferred straight to the cranks) with the whole front section being this sort of incidental control structure just to get the unicycle to track
[On the plus side - it was kind of a bettie magnet and, while it didn't upscale well - it was kind to shorter riders...ie the girl could ride it w/o feeling like being on a sled...I suspect I'm married b/c of that bike -- it was my opening line)

I kind of found abit (though less) of the same thing with the schwinn Sweet spot, though I have limited experience with them - I remember one I borrowed had this weird design issue with the seatpost -- the shock was attached to the frame in such a manner that there really wasn't room for much of a seatpost (so maybe I need to revisit that and take care to make sure the seatpost is appropriately sized for me)

Kind of a funny philosophical thing, this guy I used to run into had an interesting take on softrides (he had one with an inbuilt pot stash) -- his take was it was basically a URT with a ridicu-high pitvot (which put a shitload of mass..basically the whole bike on the rear) trianlge -- I think it was a neat analysis in that it took the URT to an absurdist* extension where the active component is the "other(non-drive) triangle"


(note : this isn't a critique on the softride philosophy, which is different. and the fact that one of those beams got me a standing O for "ugliest wreck" once has nothing to do with it :D)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey! I really want to thank you guys for taking the time to thoughtfully consider my situation (and for the thoughts on what would be appropriate rides)

I was kind of fearing that the whole riding style/application would meet with a "why the hell would you want to ride like that?" type thing (like the reaction to bar-ends of some new-gen riders :) )
but I certainly haven't found it to be the case here.

and I dig that "the world's moved on gunslinger" and that I suppose I am looking for a "neither fish nor fowl" bike in today's market*, so there probably isn't an ideal solution

but I do appreciate your guys' consideration

very cool

[*and don't get me wrong, I realize I'm setting up a specific ride - or rather you guys seem to understand that. I've got more "normal" rides for the usual sport stuff...not that they make me unfat ;) ]
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
hey thanks!


yeah, sadly the Mantra isn't really super-great choice for me (used to ride em in the late 90s) for the above reasons

I guess what I'm really asking is
"are there a modern version of this" (oh, like the skookum from a couple of years ago)
as opposed to
"are there URTs avail on the used market"

(kinda funny, that same bike was on ebay for like a bajillion $)
 

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Here, brand new:

http://www.castellanodesigns.com/Zorro.html

A unified FS wouldn't be difficult to build as a custom road design. There are probably a few builders out there who could do one for you.

The Maverick doesn't have the same level of stiffening when you stand, so it miight not be as good for road use. It tends to stiffen dramatically near the end of its travel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Oh cool - thanks!! (29er would prob be really good chice and a "sweetspot" style geo might be also - not as much excursion as a super high Pivot, but less inchwormy than the lower stuff)
that's the same dude that does the Fango?? yes?



- looks like i'll be sitting on me hands and saving pennies - not avail yet
 

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I'd press him for a delivery date. It seems to me that the re-release was announced a while back. If he's doing batches of frames, then he MAY be waiting to gauge interest...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
ah - I see

I'm kinda loosing hope that I'm really not going to find "THAT bike" that perfectly fits the app - it's certainly not the most marketable type of riding :D :(

I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE THOUGHT YOU GUYS HAVE PUT INTO IT

Kinda funny note - I'm visiting the in laws right now and help the bro-in-law sort of resurrect his old Gary Fisher Joshua - which gave me a chance to get back on a Y-style (it's been, oh, probably a decade since I've been on one) and the geometry/suspension itself was kinda of nice for the application (the rest of it -- being a 15 yeaar old bike with half working LX wasn't :D)
Sadly, prob the only one of those that'd be a good ride would be the trek YSLs (given my app, weight is..well maybe not critical but a big driving factor) and those seem to have a collector's cult around em, and I certainly remember seeing more than a couple early Ys with shock mount problems
 
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