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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got the frame since new (but it came from Spain so I don't know if is cover under warranty) in any case the drop outs read 135mm and are perfectly align, except I need to dish the rim about 3mm to the left since new.
Nicolai-Argon-FR-1-XL-M.jpg

I just feel like I'm riding a Pugley and make wheel changes a pain it the butt, other than that I love the frame..


Thanks in advance..
 

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The rear triangle may be slightly asymmetrical. Usually, Nicolai correct the wheels alignment by using a special rear dropout on the right (RADO). A number is milled into these that indicates by how many millimeter the rear hub is moved up or down. The advantage is that the frames do not be bent as extremely after welding (plus, the frames are so stiff that realigning them by force is quite - laborious). My Argon's rear triangle looks asymmetrical as well, but the trail is perfectly true.

I do not know if this is done for Rohloff compatible frames, like yours, as well though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The rear triangle may be slightly asymmetrical. Usually, Nicolai correct the wheels alignment by using a special rear dropout on the right (RADO). A number is milled into these that indicates by how many millimeter the rear hub is moved up or down. The advantage is that the frames do not be bent as extremely after welding (plus, the frames are so stiff that realigning them by force is quite - laborious). My Argon's rear triangle looks asymmetrical as well, but the trail is perfectly true.

I do not know if this is done for Rohloff compatible frames, like yours, as well though.
Thanks for the response, it makes me feel a lot better, one thing do you mean "up or down" like in side to side...!?

I look for the "rado" number in a minute..

And yes trying to "bend" this frame will be impossible plus for sure will crack
 

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Hi, if the wheel is inclined to one direction, it will be closer to one of the chain stays. However, the rear triangle might actually be asymmetrical. Nicolai aim to make the trail true, an equal distance of all four rear stays to the tire/rim does not seem to be a major objective of the alignment process. At least that is what I understood from a similar discussion in the German Nicolai forum.

I would contact Nicolai and describe your observation. They will be able to tell you how to check if the frame is true or if there really is a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi, if the wheel is inclined to one direction, it will be closer to one of the chain stays. However, the rear triangle might actually be asymmetrical. Nicolai aim to make the trail true, an equal distance of all four rear stays to the tire/rim does not seem to be a major objective of the alignment process. At least that is what I understood from a similar discussion in the German Nicolai forum.

I would contact Nicolai and describe your observation. They will be able to tell you how to check if the frame is true or if there really is a problem.
I used to laugh about Cannondales in the old days for been always twisted but I never spec that from a Nicolai..

No my wheel is vertically parallel to the frame so the bike does track straight, the problem is that the rim needs to be "Move" to one side like if I was riding a Pugley.
 

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My experience with mailing to Nicolai isn't also that good. I stopped mailing them and now I give them a call if I have a question. Much quicker! Friendly people over there.
 

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Ok - so if the frame was sourced from Spain your first point of reference should be the shop that supplied it, then the spanish distributor (listed on http://www.nicolai.net/83-1-Worldwide+Distributor+Contacts.html).

For the frame to ride 'true' the rear wheel needs to be aligned with the front wheel and that's how Nicolai set the frames. This sometimes means the wheel will appear to be slightly misaligned in the rear triangle. Think about it - if the head tube was off by 45 degrees it wouldn't matter a jot if the rear wheel was aligned perfectly to the rear triangle - the bike wouldn't be ridable.

There's enough tyre clearance on the frames that this shouldn't make use of wide tyres (within spec) a problem and you should true/dish your wheel as standard.
 

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Take a piece of string and run it from one rear dropout around the headtube and back to the other dropout. Then measure the distance from the string to the seat tube on both sides. This will tell you if the rear triangle is asymmetrical.

Slightly asymmetrical shape can be corrected by compensating with wheel dish - as you have done. You will not be able to feel it when riding - not even on a Pugsley or Moonlander (28 mm offset). Certainly not if it's just 3 mm. If you think you feel something, it's 100% placebo. Knowledge of not actually being able to feel it should help you with the perceived problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Take a piece of string and run it from one rear dropout around the headtube and back to the other dropout. Then measure the distance from the string to the seat tube on both sides. This will tell you if the rear triangle is asymmetrical.
Saul I do you one better, I used a park alignment gauge and the frame is asymmetrical by 3.2mm, I'm still waiting for a email from Nicolai to see if this is by design or a manufacturing mistake..
Slightly asymmetrical shape can be corrected by compensating with wheel dish - as you have done. You will not be able to feel it when riding - not even on a Pugsley or Moonlander (28 mm offset). Certainly not if it's just 3 mm. If you think you feel something, it's 100% placebo. Knowledge of not actually being able to feel it should help you with the perceived problem.
Oh I never say I feel anything, the bike tracks just fine, but if I did not dish the wheel will be impossible to ride..
 

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I trust your measurement and wouldn't want to dish every wheel I use to fit one frame only. Let's hope yours gets sorted, perhaps the various dropouts have enough selection range to take care of this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I trust your measurement and wouldn't want to dish every wheel I use to fit one frame only. Let's hope yours gets sorted, perhaps the various dropouts have enough selection range to take care of this?
Exactly my point is just a pain in the butt to swap wheels from bike to bike (something I do often), hopefully Nicolai will have a sound response to this issue..
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Since NicolaiUS never respond to my emails, I wrote to Nicolai Germany and I got a email next morning..

In any case they ask me for pictures of the frame, here are some of them.


I have own at least 55bikes, (currently 31) and I never saw a 3mm discrepancy on any of them, No I don't "date" early cannondales, plus I work on shops from many years and never saw such a difference unless it was intentional (early 80' for chainline issues)



 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
At the moment I'm a little disappointed with Nicolai to say the least..

This is the response I got from them..

"hi Ricky, judging from your pictures i don´t see the problem,if you want to have the frame allignment checked you can send it in anytime."

"I don't see the problem", come on is clear as day light.

Coldsetting a aluminum frame, is that even possible..!?

I guess I just deal with it locally or at least here in the states since sending the frame to Germany will prove to be far to expensive.
 

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I would try to measure directly at the dropouts (the black andozided parts) and not outside at the chainstay and measure if the dropouts are same thickness... actually you would want to measure on the inside of the dropouts where the hub is "clamped" to get a really precise measurement.

have you measured the gap between rim (perfectly dished +/- 0) and yoke on either side?

specialized demo one had a 6mm dish offset by design... :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I would try to measure directly at the dropouts (the black andozided parts) and not outside at the chainstay and measure if the dropouts are same thickness... actually you would want to measure on the inside of the dropouts where the hub is "clamped" to get a really precise measurement.
Kind of hard to measure with the tools I have access too, I did measure the dropouts and they are exactly the same thickness..

have you measured the gap between rim (perfectly dished +/- 0) and yoke on either side?
Good suggestion, that I did not do.
specialized demo one had a 6mm dish offset by design... :(
That is why I ask from the start, if the frame was design that way since I refuse to believe Nicolai will sell a crooked frame.

Ps: Doug Bradbury made the original Manitou frames with a asymmetrical rear end, very clever fellow..
 
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