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I've got a set of Arch 29ers but right now using tubes. I've been thinking about tubeless and was wondering if it's worth the effort as far as acceleration and advantages of rotational mass? Anyone run tubes and tubeless and notice a difference in riding?
 

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I think that it's definitely worth the 'effort' to run them tubeless... I've tried it with and without tubes and the tubeless is better.

It's not so much the weight saving, although there is that factor, it's more that you just don't get stopped by small holes that would demand a trailside repair with a tube.

Just one point though, and well worth looking into if you go tubeless.................

Mix up your own sealant. It's not hard to do, and it pays off because home made sealant doesn't dry out like the Stans does.

The Ingredients: One part Mold Builder. One part Slime. One part Ethylene Glycol. Two parts water.

This mix usually lasts up to a year. You can add a little glitter in there if you want to make the particles larger for better sealing.

Overall, tubeless with Stans Arch or Flow rims is easy and a great way to avoid those ride-interrupting punctures ...

R.

mtbnachos said:
I've got a set of Arch 29ers but right now using tubes. I've been thinking about tubeless and was wondering if it's worth the effort as far as acceleration and advantages of rotational mass? Anyone run tubes and tubeless and notice a difference in riding?
 

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Rainman

I am at the bottom of a bottle of stans so this is timely. What do you mean by "mold builder" - is there a product name? And is "slime" the tire filler product?

Thanks
 

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Slime is the automotive tire puncture preventer / sealer, usually available from your local car spare parts store, along with the Ethylene Glycol [Anti-Freeze Anti-Boil] used in car radiators.

The Mold Builder is available from craft shops and is simply Latex with ammonia in it. Water is H20 from your tap.

Mix up enough to do your tires, [2 scoops per tire] plus a little for topping up if needed. Store it in a cool place in a sealed container.

This mix usually last for a long time and doesn't dry out as fast as the Stans sealant.

Rainman.

ahelmus said:
Rainman

I am at the bottom of a bottle of stans so this is timely. What do you mean by "mold builder" - is there a product name? And is "slime" the tire filler product?

Thanks
 

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Rohloff
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I recently went tubeless in my rear wheel. I don't notice a difference in acceleration but I do notice a significant difference in the suppleness of the tire. It's amazing how much different it is. I'm now looking forward to converting my front wheel to tubeless.
 

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On the Stans Arch/Flow rims, you can just use the Stan's yellow tape, then their valve stem. I have 1 set of Arches and one set of Flows. Every tire I have tried to set up tubeless has sealed perfectly. (Panaracer Rampages, Maxxis Ignitors, Kenda Nevegals, Kenda Karmas, Schwalbe Racing Ralphs, some Bontragers, etc). Every tire I have used is a kevlar bead. I weigh almost 300 lbs geared up, and in 2 years of riding rocky, rough, fast northeast trails, I have had exactly ZERO flats and/or failures. I was using my singlespeed as a trials bike on some big rock ledges with only 25 psi in a set of Ignitors, and managed to burp some air (popped some air out past the tire bead), but not so much that I couldn't ride it home, and I definitely don't blame the setup. In the old days of tubes, I occaisionally rolled a tire off a rim WITH tubes.

I still carry a spare tube, pump, patch kit, but lately I've been wondering WHY???

A couple of recommendations...

1. Watch the informational video on Stans website. It really helps.
2. Use soapy water liberally when 1st installing. Put it in a spray bottle like an old windex bottle (or you can but empties at Home Depot or something)
3. Use an air compressor to get the tires seated initially. You shouldn't need it after that.
4. If you use Stan's sealant, add an ounce or two every season (I have no experience with the homemade stuff like Rainman suggested - sounds like a good tip though).


I have also set up a pair of Bontrager wheels with the Stan's rubber rim strips - they work great as well, but didn't seal up as easily as the Stan's rims do. The "Bead Socket Technology" that Stans promotes is very simple but effective.

You won't save much weight, but there are lots of advantages to a tubeless setup. Once you try it, you will have one of those "aha moments" where you realize what you were missing.

Tubeless = no need to run really high pressures = biggerer contact patch = more cornering traction + more climbing traction. Lower pressures = more compliant ride = more "virtual suspension travel", less bumping up/down = more energy transfered to forward motion.

Tubeless feels slower on pavement, but on the trails, it just smoothes out the ride into a really fluid, flowing, fast ride. I love it.

Again, I'm almost 300 lbs, and I ride sub-30 psi in my Rampages on my RIP9 - and this bike gets hucked off hip-high drops, has ridden ski lift trails, pretty much does it all. NO FLATS. I'm sure I will get a flat on my ride tomorrow after saying all this, but I won't have anything to complain about. I used to get 20-50 flats a year, now ZERO.

***I never rode UST tubeless, and never rode tubeless until I converted to 29" wheels. But I rode tubes in 29" wheels for a while before switching to tubeless.
 

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"I still carry a spare tube, pump, patch kit, but lately I've been wondering WHY???"

I still carry points and condenser for my vintage VW modded with electronic ignition WHY???

Belt and suspenders. That's why.
 

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rcnotes said:
"I still carry a spare tube, pump, patch kit, but lately I've been wondering WHY???"
I had that thought a while back - but never ditched the stuff from my wingnut. Good thing too b/c on Saturday, I blew two holes in my front tire on the edge of a rock landing a little log hop, holes big enough that my Stans/Slime mix could not ever seal (including one right through the fabric casing below the bead).

Pulled off the Olympic valve and on with the 29er tube to ride out the rest of the trail. Glad I kept the tube after all.
 

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Stayin' Puft
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Hmm...ran my ZTR 355's with tubes for a year. Now I am running the tubeless-ready Pythons. I seated both beads using a tube, snuck the tube out one side w/o disturbing the other bead, and put the valve in. No soapy water or gymnastics required...simple pumping with a floor pump and it seated the other bead. Follow the rim prep and yellow tape video off the Stan's site as mentioned.

This combo is no lighter than the previous tires I was running if you count grams including the weight of the sealant. But...it is sooooo much nicer to ride my full-rigid SS now. I do not plan to go back to tubes on those wheels...ever. My front tire does not bounce off the rocks as much now with the lower pressure. Better rear wheel traction. Lower rolling resistance (apparent by riding) over bumpy, rocky trails. Overall as if I now have an extra 1/2" of suspension, without all the downside of shocks (weight, bob, maintenance, shock pumps, etc...)
 

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Sealant?

Rainman said:
Mix up your own sealant. It's not hard to do, and it pays off because home made sealant doesn't dry out like the Stans does.

The Ingredients: One part Mold Builder. One part Slime. One part Ethylene Glycol. Two parts water.

This mix usually lasts up to a year. You can add a little glitter in there if you want to make the particles larger for better sealing.

Overall, tubeless with Stans Arch or Flow rims is easy and a great way to avoid those ride-interrupting punctures ...

R.
Am I the only one using this http://www.ride-on.com/prod_bike-on.asp ?
 

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I run Stan's & still carry a tube, fortunately.
Got a tiny, tiny hole, less than 1/8" recently & the air leaked out immediately.

Slapped in a tuber & outta there.....had to patch the miniscule puncture w/a tube patch at home & back on it!
 

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My 26er has been tubeless for 2 years. No flats. Several times, I replaced a tire after seeing a large puncture which the Stan's sealed during a ride. I'll never consider using tubes because of the great luck I've had with this setup.

On my new 29er, I just got a new wheelset, with Flows for the rims, with the yellow tape, and a new set of Conti Mtn. King 2.4s. They sealed fine, using a compressor, and have stayed that way for a couple rides so far. I am not running really low pressures -- 30psi front and rear.

On a group ride last night, there were a couple flats -- all people running tubes. I don't recall seeing anyone flatten running tubeless, except for _extreme_ stuff like huge sidewall gashes. That happened to me a couple times on very rocky downhills, running very low pressures (25lbs, and I'm 230). Increasing the pressure just a bit seems to have done the trick.

I'd
 

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bsdc said:
I recently went tubeless in my rear wheel. I don't notice a difference in acceleration but I do notice a significant difference in the suppleness of the tire. It's amazing how much different it is. I'm now looking forward to converting my front wheel to tubeless.
Hi, what tire are you running in the rear? I've blown two WTB's of the rim. They work in the in the front but the the pressure on the rear seems to be too much for a WTB kevlar bead.
 

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Rohloff
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Pmac83 said:
Hi, what tire are you running in the rear? I've blown two WTB's of the rim. They work in the in the front but the the pressure on the rear seems to be too much for a WTB kevlar bead.
I'm running Bontrager Jones ACX tires on Stan's Flow rims.
 
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