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squish is good
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From the Merriam-Webster dictionary - Taboo

1: forbidden to profane use or contact because of what are held to be dangerous supernatural powers

2 a: banned on grounds of morality or taste <the subject is taboo> b: banned as constituting a risk <the area beyond is taboo, still alive with explosives - Robert Leckie>


I think we all can agree, the mans good. Why the hate on the forums here? I'm not a hater, nor am I a fanboy, just trying to figure out why Peaty gets all the love from the veterans and why Hill gets nothing but disdain.

My theory is that he took a boutique brand (read Iron Horse) to become a mainstream company, when the market wasn't ready to accept it as mainstream. I think as a rider he elevated a brand, which is relatively backwards from what we are used to seeing as MTB enthusiasts. Enthusiasts want to see good riders sign with companies they are comfortable with, not no-name bargain brands! Now he has signed with a mainstream brand that is universally hated while at the same time being universally respected by enthusiasts. Where will he take Specialized?

Personally, I am a Sam Hill fan, I am a firm believer that a bike is no more capable than it's rider is. A bike is a tool, it does not define the rider. Hill deserves more credit than he's gotten up to this point.
 

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Clutchman83 said:
My theory is that he took a boutique brand (read Iron Horse) to become a mainstream company,
I don't know if you are just trolling here, but the idea that IH is or ever has been a 'boutique brand' (think Turner, Intense, Foes etc) is laughable, and really brightened my morning.

They are mainstream in the sense that they sell crappy bikes at Sportchek, half a step above Wlamart in the retail world.

Sam Hill on the other hand deserves all the credit he gets, he and Nico Voullioz (and Shaun Palmer to a lesser degree) have both made a lasting impression in MTB DH racing.

Where are the haterz?
 

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squish is good
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
nouseforaname said:
I don't know if you are just trolling here, but the idea that IH is or ever has been a 'boutique brand' (think Turner, Intense, Foes etc) is laughable, and really brightened my morning.

They are mainstream in the sense that they sell crappy bikes at Sportchek, half a step above Wlamart in the retail world.

Sam Hill on the other hand deserves all the credit he gets, he and Nico Voullioz (and Shaun Palmer to a lesser degree) have both made a lasting impression in MTB DH racing.

Where are the haterz?
I may be trolling a little bit, but Iron Horse is far from mainstream (Giant, Spesh, Trek) and far from the Wally World brands. They are an enigma IME, they produce cheap as hell frames and world class frames, just in small volumes. Speaking of last years products of course, what the new year brings is yet to be seen. I hope the ICT setup works for them as well as the DW bikes. Ironically the DW link is held in high regard while their bikes are looked at as "cheesy" after winning the DH world cup...?

I'm mainly doing this thread because I feel that Hill's talent is eclipsed by his association with a debatable quality company.
 

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That race with the split screen with Sam Hill was spectacular. If he performs like that most of the time, then perhaps he deserves the hype. That race inspired me because most of his contemporaries still look boring and look bored doing what they do.

As far as the company link goes, I remember even as a kid, Huffy had a team of top racers in BMX on their branded bikes. Only thing was those bikes were not available to the public and built by a high-end manufacturer. It does bring the brand up, especially when Sam's bike was not available to the public (referencing the mini-DH many want to see built).

I agree about the "cheesy" view the IH bikes hold, and just like GM, when they finally make a model right, they kill it. In this case, it doesn't take much to see that one party was not happy, and he has mentioned his side, which has supported the tangible outcome of the partnership- lack of adequate FEA and proper build techniques. I'm sure there are many that won't give them DW Link a chance due to the first iteration of IH's Hollowpoint that came with a slew of characteristics and was released essentially as blowouts. How many saw them before those big mail order places were blowing them out? They were great deals because the components were worth more than the price. Anyhow, that cheapened the DW and perhaps gave him a tough time coming back, but then IF and Ibis and Pivot, now Turner have really brought it legitimacy and the competing designs are not so competing as we think because DW can tune the suspension to exhibit a variety of traits depending on what the designer wants. This is perhaps the control DW also didn't get with IH and their execution through sub-contractors and putting pricing first.
 

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All I know is that he's British and is a damn good rider.

It sucks balls that he rode a bike that IH wasn't even selling to the public! Is that really true? Maybe they should instigate a rule saying that the bikes have to be production frames... Similar to Touring car, or WRC.

I think that from IH's point of view it is a mixed bag. They grow the brand, kids can't afford (and parents don't want to pay for) the top end stuff that wins the races, so they buy the brand name, but the low end stuff they can afford. But create some animocity with the older riders feel a bit pissed that they can't buy the frame.

Is that a fair assessment?
 

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He ain't British, he's an Aussie. Mate.


Seriously, I'd like to play devil's advocate here so bear with me. I find it pretty funny that he's signed with 'universally hated' Spesh - WHY are they regarded in that way? Is it because they are a genuinely soulless, unfeeling mega-corporation? Or is it just fashionable to think of them like that, in the same way a lot of people think of Shimano or Fox Shox? Do they make poorly-built, badly researched products that nobody with any 'real' feeling for riding would take seriously? Or are they actually making some world-class stuff, but don't carry the 'core image of, say, Marzocchi, who in reality have been knocking out some fairly shoddy kit in the last 2 years...?

Hill is not a god, he's not taboo, he's just a fooking fast kid. Anyone who thinks he's harming DH in any way is a fool. He has raised the bar for everyone.

Peaty gets love, not just for his impressive riding career, but for the work he puts back into the sport that nurtured him. Here in the UK he works constantly at a grassroots level, running training camps and trail-building weekends, and keeping an eye on the next young Hills - Josh Bryceland is a case in point, and a Peaty protege.
 

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TheDon said:
All I know is that he's British and is a damn good rider.
I assume you are refering to Peaty?

Peat = a true professional, nice guy, mentor and an ambassador for the sport.

Hill = young, not as comfortable in the 'public' eye, loads and loads of talent on any bike. Unbeatable on his day. He is a fearless Aussie!

I'm a big fan of both. :thumbsup:
 

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Crickey Mate!!! what can I say.
[SLAP] wake up to yourself.

BTW
There is only ONE TheDon.
He is our (Aussie) Don Bradman. The greatest batsman to take on you British toffs in history..

You Poms can back away from our Sam.. LOL!!
 

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Clutchman83 said:
My theory is that he took a boutique brand (read Iron Horse) to become a mainstream company, when the market wasn't ready to accept it as mainstream.
Let's get a few things straight...

Ironhorse was a boutique brand in 1990 when they made a small number of BMX frames. Since then the company was "mainstream" for many years before Sam Hill or DW-link was in the picture.

They had money, they sold many (cheap) bikes that no-one cared about. They sell in many "big-box" stores in the US for a very long time. Definitely not "boutique".

Fast forward a few years and came the DW-link. Now IH had a bike with a good suspension design (at the time) and was known for selling "cheap" mtb's. How do they sell more product? Hook-up with a big sponsor and get a big rider by paying him more than anyone else is willing to offer (being that they're maintream and all...)

So Monster Energy/Iron Horse/Sam Hill was born. The rest is history.

Perhaps you are just mis-using "boutique". Boutique means you make a very small amount of frames, by hand, probably less than 5 employees, etc.

Ironhorse has been selling thousands of bikes on a mass-produced scale far before Sammy. ;)

Now, obviously the point of your comment I agree with....

Ironhorse sold **** bikes. By paying for the DW-link they sold a better bike.

Did Sam help make this company bigger than it was? Absolutely but such is the case when you throw money at a big name rider.
 

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squish is good
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
bad63lac said:
BTW, I would just like to add that calling IronHorse boutique is like calling Mongoose or GT boutique... :)
Funny how one word can irk people, okay, not boutique point taken. I suppose what I mean is they fill a niche that not even Mongoose or GT occupy. I never took them seriously as a bike company until Hill started owning the world cup circuit. I thought they were a wally world brand masquerading as a bike shop brand. Mongoose and GT make those crummy bikes too but their market perception was never on the level of Iron Horse IMO.

I would have ranked them about with Ibex in terms of reputation before Hill came around thats all. Regardless, it seems they may be descending back into mediocrity rather quickly with the departure of the DW link and the restructuring of their marketing.
 

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GAME ON!
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i bought my iron horse mkiii with no prior knowledge of sam hill. at this moment, i still care very little about sam hill. in fact, when i mention that i have an iron horse, everyone conjures up images of sam hill in their heads. at least he'll help my resale value.
 
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