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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I was in the market for a new bike last year, and nearly went FS. In the end i went with a hardtail as i was utterly confused as to which design of full suss was actually most efficient.
( when i say most efficient i mean least energy lost when climbing)

Ive ridden the epiphany which i really enjoyed, and the truth, and i preferred the handling of the epi on everything but the climbs.

I barely noticed the rear shox working on the truth, and was convinced that ICT was doing what it promised. The Epi however did feel like more work going uphill.

If the suspension design is the same, how can one feel so different to the other?

(for reference the truth had 2.0 inch tyres, the Epi slightly more.)
 

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Keep it Simple Stupid!!!
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It depends on the conditions

I own a Moment and it's my understanding that a Truth is a XC racing rig and the Epiphany is more All Mountain. Truth has less wheel travel,is lighter and more efficient, The Epiphany has more wheel travel, is heavier and stronger do you weigh over 180lbs?

Living in Arizona and coming from California I realize that what was ideal there has compromises here and vice versa. ICT is nothing like a hard-tail out of the saddle or even on smooth seated climbs. But on nasty loose rocky climbs ICT is really nice. Here's a pic of a climb that I prefer my Moment over a hard-tail. For what it's worth I like hard-tails best.
Steel Freak:crazy: :crazy:
 

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all your base
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There's a good chance the wheels on the truth were lighter as well. I totally agree with Steel Freak though, techinical climbing is a great place for a moment. The lack of pedal feedback you get with the ict/horst link is one of my favorite traits about the design; chain tension doesn't 'lock out' or stiffen the suspension and prevent it from doing its job under power.
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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Steel Freak said:
I own a Moment and it's my understanding that a Truth is a XC racing rig and the Epiphany is more All Mountain. Truth has less wheel travel,is lighter and more efficient, The Epiphany has more wheel travel, is heavier and stronger do you weigh over 180lbs?

Living in Arizona and coming from California I realize that what was ideal there has compromises here and vice versa. ICT is nothing like a hard-tail out of the saddle or even on smooth seated climbs. But on nasty loose rocky climbs ICT is really nice. Here's a pic of a climb that I prefer my Moment over a hard-tail. For what it's worth I like hard-tails best.
Steel Freak:crazy: :crazy:
just curious....is that picture of Sullivan Cyn?
 

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FoShizzle said:
just curious....is that picture of Sullivan Cyn?
No it's DeBell to Verdugo Peak in Burbank CA after a rain.
SF:crazy: :crazy:
 

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FoShizzle said:
ah...never been, thanks
The AM Ellsworth Climb really well, Really like climbing on this bike especially under poor conditions, the added traction becomes efficiency when the going gets rough, on a short more pristine climb a hard-tail will smoke it but you can clean stuff on this that you thought were impossible on an HT. Id say ICT is one of the best suspensions going.
SF:crazy: :crazy:
 

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That configuration (TE calls it ICT) is good, everyone knows it. It was designed by some great engineers and riders (not TE). The down sides that I found were it wallowed in it's travel a lot, it does need platform damping despite the over the top claims and stupid marketing BS, I also found that it tended to hang up on square edge hits (stalling almost). The plus for me was nice active braking so no skitting around like a lot of SP designs. There are a lot of good designs out there and a fair few have now leaped ahead of TE 'borrowed' design.

So I guess to get attention now he has to shout and hola about bendy tubes.........
 

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It is good at what it is good at. seated technical climbs up and fast and loose on the way down the technical the better.

There are many great designs out their now and all are better at different things. Most use chain tension to aid pedalling and reduce bob but that leads to compromisies elsewhere. nothing is perfect it cannot be. It just comes down to what you like in your ride.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the replies guys.
The wheelset was the same, but tyres were different-2.0 on the truth, larger on the epiphany.
I liked the ride, downhill anyway- but without having the chance to try other brands off road, i wouldnt be able to tell which suspension design is suited to me.

Oh decisions, decisions.
 

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birdseedsr said:
Hi all,
I barely noticed the rear shox working on the truth, and was convinced that ICT was doing what it promised. The Epi however did feel like more work going uphill.
If the suspension design is the same, how can one feel so different to the other?
a lot of it might come down to how the rear suspension was set up, a few psi can make a significant difference as well as differences in 'platform damping', which is a type of shock damping which basically slows down how fast a shock compresses under small forces. its is designed to filter out the bobbing induced by pedalling. Small differences can, again, make big differences in how the bike rides
 

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+1 on shock setup diffs making a huge diff on comparisons... I own 3 Ellys and 0 have ICT -- sorry I cant contribute more to the conversation (riding them is fun tho)... but sheeez some folks with TE fettishes just cant let go... :eek:ut:
 

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Rogue Rider x said:
+1 on shock setup diffs making a huge diff on comparisons... I own 3 Ellys and 0 have ICT -- sorry I cant contribute more to the conversation (riding them is fun tho)... but sheeez some folks with TE fettishes just cant let go... :eek:ut:
So nobody with riding experience of that four bar configuration is allowed to make a comment? Carry on digging your hole, it's pretty deep now. Do you know my experience of Ellsworth, the company and it's CS? No you don't, so get over yourself. You've made an idiot of yourself more than once on these boards.
 

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:yawn: yeah didnt see that comin...
 

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Rogue Rider x said:
:yawn: yeah didnt see that comin...
yeah, we didn't see the same usual lame comeback comin.... :rolleyes:

Why not try an intelligent conversation? Or will you do what you normally do and start name calling?

Come on, let's see an in-depth analysis of the four bar design (apart from your amazing 'depending on shock' pressure revelation).

So if anyone here doesn't blow sunshine up TE's backside they are trolling? If you can't handle a public forum with different opinions and experiences then go away - otherwise it will be you that's doing the trolling.
 

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birdseedsr said:
Hi all,

I was in the market for a new bike last year, and nearly went FS. In the end i went with a hardtail as i was utterly confused as to which design of full suss was actually most efficient.
( when i say most efficient i mean least energy lost when climbing)

Ive ridden the epiphany which i really enjoyed, and the truth, and i preferred the handling of the epi on everything but the climbs.

I barely noticed the rear shox working on the truth, and was convinced that ICT was doing what it promised. The Epi however did feel like more work going uphill.

If the suspension design is the same, how can one feel so different to the other?

(for reference the truth had 2.0 inch tyres, the Epi slightly more.)
The geometry of the front triangle differs betwen the two bikes...if you stay in the saddle during climbs, the Truth gets you over the bars a bit more making for an easier climb.
 

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Id hope a light weight XC bike would climb faster

The Truth has steeper angles (head tube) is set up for a 100mm travel XC fork and has a shorter wheel base. It's a completely different animal. Does it climb better, It's safe to say it does as it is Built for Efficiency. Early Truths had breakage issues and Tony refused to put a weight limit recommendation on it. I'd say 180b Max for XC use with the current design. Just don't cry when a well conditioned cyclist smoked you on a long climb on a 29er Hard-tail.
SF:crazy: :crazy:
 

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I think shock plays a big factor. My Id with after market Romic (cali geometry) climbed better than my Epi with Ellsworth tuned rp23. I have only had the bike a couple of months and expect it to get it more dialed as time goes on but I feel a lot more bob.
 

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Valhalla said:
I think shock plays a big factor. My Id with after market Romic (cali geometry) climbed better than my Epi with Ellsworth tuned rp23. I have only had the bike a couple of months and expect it to get it more dialed as time goes on but I feel a lot more bob.
Interesting that the Epiphany has some bob...but I've been tempted to replace my Id with something newer but can't find anything that handles the combination of climbs and descents in tight singletrack that we get up here so well.

Arguably, the Truth and Id are the best climbing bikes ever built.
 
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