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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
is bottom out resistance & small bumb sensitivity possible on a 5.5" travel bike?

i am thinking about to getting myself a Fox DHX 5.0 coil to replace an RP3 on my ride (intense 5.5), as i like the idea of adjustable bottom-out resistance, and the plush feel of a coil.. though is it possible to achieve bottom out resistance on say 4-6ft drops while maintaining plush small bump sensitivity when the coil has only a relatively small amount (5.5") of travel to work with?
 

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Do It Yourself
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Unless you racing DH, 5.5" is not a small amount of travel (unless compare with a VP10). It's just a normal amount of travel. Anyway, the DHX is probably a good bet if you're hitting the hucks although I'm not sure that you have the right frame if you're doing 6 ft to flat on a regular basis. If the DHX doesn't work, send it to PUSH.
 

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Possibly the Rocco. They are tuned for higher monopivot low-bob and you can remove and change shims to make them even softer, or send to a shock tuner to do it for about $80.
 

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I changed the 5th air that came with the frame and changed to Pearl 3.1 then made a world of difference. 5.5 does not seem to bottom out easily anyway, but Pearl made it plusher. You should keep eye on what Ronnie says when he gets his Manitou Evolver ISX6 for his 5.5. ISX6 would feel amazing on his 5.5, and I have ISX6 on my 6.6 and just amazing.

My goal is to get the feel of rear suspension you are talking about and 6.6 and ISX6 just has sensitive small bump and bottom out resistance. We'll see how that work with 5.5.
 

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Small bump compliance is traditionally achieved by reducing the friction intrinsic to the suspension system. Bottom out resistance is achieved either by a progressive spring rate or progressive damping of some sort. The two should not really be connected. Now, as to whether all this theory is available in a real world package that you can buy is another issue.

I have personally had very good experiences with a couple of DHX 5.0 Coil shocks I've owned, and I've heard some people on the Turner board say they really liked those shocks when retuned by Push. There's really only one way to find out...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
originally posted by Homebrew
although I'm not sure that you have the right frame if you're doing 6 ft to flat on a regular basis
.

very true, i don't want to end the life of my frame early!:bluefrown: although those drops arn't in my every ride.. they are becoming more comfortable for myself to attempt and therefore more often.. i've heard the intense vpp frames don't like bottoming out, so while i'd like to get myself a more capable AM/FR bike.. in the meantime i thought it might be easier on the hip pocket to get a rear shock that can handle the impacts a bit better..
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
originally posted by OneBikeGuy
You should keep eye on what Ronnie says when he gets his Manitou Evolver ISX6 for his 5.5. ISX6 would feel amazing on his 5.5, and I have ISX6 on my 6.6 and just amazing.
yeah, definately.. i checked 'em out on the website after he said he was getting one.. they look the goods.. looking forward to hearing what he has to say..
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
posted by Kracker
Small bump compliance is traditionally achieved by reducing the friction intrinsic to the suspension system. Bottom out resistance is achieved either by a progressive spring rate or progressive damping of some sort. The two should not really be connected. Now, as to whether all this theory is available in a real world package that you can buy is another issue.
i don't see why not? technology in suspension is ever progressing and i'm sure this 'package' is available in the longer travel shocks on well designed suspension bikes, where the progressive damping has more room to work with.. i'm just not sure as to whether it works so well with only 5.5" of movement to work with? i'm not disputing the fact that it might.. i just haven't had or heard much experience from others on this topic..
 

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thats right living legend
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vicarious intention said:
i don't see why not? technology in suspension is ever progressing and I'm sure this 'package' is available in the longer travel shocks on well designed suspension bikes, where the progressive damping has more room to work with.. I'm just not sure as to whether it works so well with only 5.5" of movement to work with? I'm not disputing the fact that it might.. i just haven't had or heard much experience from others on this topic..
Dude, you should really be hitting some kind of a transition on those 6' drops. That just sounds harsh, even for a 6.6 "and your on a 5.5". If your skilled you should be able to come down smoothly on a little tranny somewhere. Having said that IMHO if your damaging your frame you should know it. It shouldn't feel comfortable, "right", or fun. So in the end, if your laying them down, and it's feeling good to you... you should be ok. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
originally posted by blackagness
Dude, you should really be hitting some kind of a transition on those 6' drops
haha! i ain't huckin' 6' to flat! i try not to go off much bigger than 3' to flat..

That just sounds harsh, even for a 6.6 "and your on a 5.5"... Having said that IMHO if your damaging your frame you should know it...
i don't think i've harshly bottomed the rear end yet, if so, only lightly, so i don't think i've hurt my ride in any way (except the odd bit of paint after a fall which is always painful! :cryin:)... though this is why i'm enquiring about the effectiveness of coil bottom-out resistance on 'relatively short-travel' frames compared to what they're normally found on (longer travel FR/DH bikes)..
 

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thats right living legend
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vicarious intention said:
haha! i ain't huckin' 6' to flat! i try not to go off much bigger than 3' to flat..

i don't think I've harshly bottomed the rear end yet, if so, only lightly, so i don't think I've hurt my ride in any way (except the odd bit of paint after a fall which is always painful! :crying:)... though this is why I'm enquiring about the effectiveness of coil bottom-out resistance on 'relatively short-travel' frames compared to what they're normally found on (longer travel FR/DH bikes)..
To my knowledge the BO adjuster is just as effective on a shorter travel bike as a longer travel bike... just "scaled" to suit. :thumbsup:
 

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vicarious intension said:
haha! i ain't huckin' 6' to flat! i try not to go off much bigger than 3' to flat..
.
I don't think it should be a problem achieving a smooth ride and bottoming resistance on a 5.5" frame if you are looking at 3 foot drops to flat. I have achieved that goal on both my old Heckler (~5.6", 5th coil) and even better on my Azonic Saber (~5.2", Swinger 4-Way Air). I have also achieved this with several different 5" forks.
 

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vicarious intension said:
i am thinking about to getting myself a Fox DHX 5.0 coil to replace an RP3 on my ride (intense 5.5), as i like the idea of adjustable bottom-out resistance, and the plush feel of a coil.. though is it possible to achieve bottom out resistance on say 4-6ft drops while maintaining plush small bump sensitivity when the coil has only a relatively small amount (5.5") of travel to work with?
Yes, the 5.0 has a bottom-out adjustment, so you set the shock however gives you the sensitivity you want, then dial up bottom out as needed. As was mentioned, you may need a custom tune so that Propedal is light enough for the VPP suspension to work.
 

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I've been riding my 5point5 for three years with a 2004 Manitou Swinger 4-Way. It has been bomb proof but in need of service. I decided to see if there was a better shock for this bike. I remembered a thread from about a year ago with a discussion about VPP not needing a platform shock, with input from guys at Intense. I started looking for such a shock and noticed that Intense frames shown at Interbike had Manitou Evolver. It is available with shimmed damping, so no SPV, with associated better small bump compliance. It has the air charged piggyback which controls the bottoming out. The ISX-6 also has additional high and low speed damping control.

I ordered mine about a month ago and they tell me it is on the way as we speak!:cool: I can't wait to try it. OBG, who is serious hucker,:yikes: has one on his 6.6 and says that he thinks it is great!

Ronnie.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
originally posted by kapusta
I don't think it should be a problem achieving a smooth ride and bottoming resistance on a 5.5" frame if you are looking at 3 foot drops to flat
true, i haven't found a problem with damping resistance when they are limited to 3'.. though lately, more occasionally i will go bigger, and if i don't land just right on the tranny.. that's when i feel, i could use some more resistance..

originally posted by fsrxc
As was mentioned, you may need a custom tune so that Propedal is light enough for the VPP suspension to work.
yes, i hardly use the Propedal on the RP3, and when i do, it is barely noticeable except that it may just may slightly retract from the small bump sensitivity the RP3 gives when Propedal gives is in the lightest setting..

originally posted by Ronnie
I remembered a thread from about a year ago with a discussion about VPP not needing a platform shock, with input from guys at Intense.
:thumbsup: cheers, very interesting read.. with sime links to other interesting reads! i think i actually remember reading something along those same lines.. though there wasn't any input from a 2nd or 3rd party (or people from Intense for that matter!), guess i should just do some more thorough searches in here instead of asking questions that have already been answered! (in one way or another)

originally posted by BanzaiRider (in above mentioned thread)
I'm curious to know if anyone has tried a non platform shock on a VPP suspension yet (6.6, 5.5, VPX, Nomad or Blur)? If so how does it pedal, does it bob a lot? On small bumps going downhill, does it perform better than the platform shock?
originally posted by n10'sGuy
Yes by all means do to the torque sensitivity of the VPP drive train it lends itself much better than MOST other designs on the market today to non platform dampers. The original VPP's were amazing with simple shocks that had no platform jimi jami stuff. BTW most peeps setup their VPPs with minimum SPV or minimum propedal, its simply not needed.

IMHO IF you took the simplest damper, with no fancy platform circuitry and mounted it to all the various multi link, FSR, faux bar, whatever, the VPP would show as a clear winner in functionality it would pedal better and descend better. Pedaling is enhanced by VPP torque sensitivity and descending is enhanced by the rearward wheel path. This would be a great test for a magazine to do! A back to back to back test, one simple damper and all the popular frame designs.
that does actually remind me of a review i once read of the Intense 5.5 w/ RP3 a while ago.. the reviewer did rave about rear end suspension, though IMO he started to focused a little too much on the RP3, as he couldn't really decipher much of a difference between the 3 Propedal settings! this surely is a testament to the pedalling efficiency of the Intense designed VPP rear end! (i just had a quick search to try find this review.. tho to no avail.. it might've even been in a mag.. not sure..)

in the same thread, where i pulled the above question which was answered by n10'sGuy.. BanzaiRider states: Don't worry (n10'sGuy), aappling72 will be doing that test for us soon!
anyone know where i can find this? could be some interesting reading...

looks like i'm now looking for a shock completely w/o any type of SPV/Propedal/Platform..! cheers for your responses fellas.. great to have got one step closer in finding the right rear-end suspeneion that really suits the bike and how i want it to feel underneath me... (of course the best way is trial and error.. though when you "work to eat, eat to live, live to ride, and ride to work".. you don't really have a lot of money to throw around!)
 
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