[LyncStar]

I'm wondering if short interval training (1-5 minute intervals) on the road bike or trainer, are necessary to improve performance on a 100 mile MTB race. Normally, for interval type training I do long intervals at my LT (20 minutes on, 5 off, 20 minutes on). The race I'm doing is the Leadville 100, mainly non-technical, but 13K feet of climbing all above 10K feet. So of the climbs are very challenging in their length and steepness.

thoughts?

 

[Ptor]

I'm wondering if short interval training (1-5 minute intervals) on the road bike or trainer, are necessary to improve performance on a 100 mile MTB race.

My answer is yes. There are convincing exercise physiology studies demonstrating improved 40 K time trials after supramaximal high intensity training. Here's a couple of abstracts to get you started:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=11772161
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12439086

There's a lot more out there and those abstracts have additional links associated with them. My distillation of the material is that once you're trained (i.e. - have a base, and I suspect all of us on this board have that base), riding more of the same at sub-maximal intensity isn't going to make you faster. You need repeated supramaximal efforts of relatively short duration several times a week over a several week period to see improvement. There are fancy ways to customize the interval duration (see the 2nd abstract), but 30 seconds to a couple of minutes would put you in the ballpark.

I hate 'em, but I do em...

 

[LyncStar]

My answer is yes. There are convincing exercise physiology studies demonstrating improved 40 K time trials after supramaximal high intensity training. Here's a couple of abstracts to get you started:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=11772161
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12439086

There's a lot more out there and those abstracts have additional links associated with them. My distillation of the material is that once you're trained (i.e. - have a base, and I suspect all of us on this board have that base), riding more of the same at sub-maximal intensity isn't going to make you faster. You need repeated supramaximal efforts of relatively short duration several times a week over a several week period to see improvement. There are fancy ways to customize the interval duration (see the 2nd abstract), but 30 seconds to a couple of minutes would put you in the ballpark.

I hate 'em, but I do em...

Thanks for the links. Thought it was written in Greek, it did seem to indicate improvement in 40K TTs which are not equivalent to 100mile MTB races. I can definately see the improvement potential in the 40K TT but not necessarily in the longer endurance events...

 

[LyNx]

I figure as I said in another post you had about doing a 100 mile race with so much climbing like the LT100 that doing serious climbing would be the most beneficial and I'll stand by this and hope I'm right - since this is what I'll be doing and trying my hand at Leadville once I get a spot.

Maybe do the intervals while climbing long climbs with very short recovery to simulate what you should be experiencing out there in Leadville. I'd most definitely do some "heavy pedal" (sit in a very hard gear and grind it out as hard as you can) work on the climbs to help build leg strength and intervals on the hills to help build stamina and recovery.

 

[bombsquad]

umm

I heard if you increase your riding till you don't see improvement (more hours) and then do more while drinking beers... you get drunk.

But seriously I just don't see how you guys do those long events. whoa.:thumbsup:

 

[hairball_dh]

I'm wondering if short interval training (1-5 minute intervals) on the road bike or trainer, are necessary to improve performance on a 100 mile MTB race. Normally, for interval type training I do long intervals at my LT (20 minutes on, 5 off, 20 minutes on). The race I'm doing is the Leadville 100, mainly non-technical, but 13K feet of climbing all above 10K feet. So of the climbs are very challenging in their length and steepness.

thoughts?

Ya gotta do 'em if you want to maximize your performance. Some key concepts:

1. Of all the fitness variables, power at threshold (think what you can sustain fo 60 min pinned) is the largest single determinant of race outcome - for just about any distance.

2. LT power is some % of VO2max power.

3. The best way to prepare for an event is to train similar to the event's demands close to the event.

What's all that mean? Base training for ultra cyclists is not long slow miles - that is good at making you slow...our base training is interval work of 30 seconds to 5 min.

I wrote an article on this here.

Got your suffer face on?

 

[extrmtao]

Ya gotta do 'em if you want to maximize your performance. Some key concepts:

1. Of all the fitness variables, power at threshold (think what you can sustain fo 60 min pinned) is the largest single determinant of race outcome - for just about any distance.

2. LT power is some % of VO2max power.

3. The best way to prepare for an event is to train similar to the event's demands close to the event.

What's all that mean? Base training for ultra cyclists is not long slow miles - that is good at making you slow...our base training is interval work of 30 seconds to 5 min.

I wrote an article on this here.

Got your suffer face on?

Excellent article Dave, I had not read that one before today. I am interested to know how you incorporate rest periods in with training.

There is the fail save "rest as hard as you train," but that doesn't answer the detailed questions.

How much rest should be incorporated after hard interval training versus the long base rides?

I am interested in this aspect as I don't want to cook myself too early in the season and avoid over-use injury's.

As always keep up the good work and I will use my webster to try and keep up with your articles :thumbsup:

 

[hairball_dh]

Excellent article Dave, I had not read that one before today. I am interested to know how you incorporate rest periods in with training.

Thanks tomato. As far as rest goes, I'm not a big fan of extended rest periods, and I don't subscribe to the periodization notion of 3 weeks on 1 week off. If I do that it takes at least a week before I'm firing on all cylinders after the rest week and that amounts to a lot of wasted time.

Sometimes I'll train in blocks and rest in blocks, however much the training required. In other periods I'll train 4-5 days/week and can maintain that flow indefenitely - rest is built into the weekly plan.

There are times when I'll take extended breaks. After 24's (uh, that's mandatory ) , before big builds and after breaking bones.

 

[teamdicky]

I am interested in this aspect as I don't want to cook myself too early in the season and avoid over-use injury's.

:

Mmmmmmmmmm.... cooked tomato

 

[extrmtao]

Mmmmmmmmmm.... cooked tomato

TD is one of the funniest cats I know. He knows how to turn any informational, informative (yes I know those both mean the same thing) thread into a joke.

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR, WHUAHAHAHAHHAHA and all that other stuff.

Can't we keep the NC riff raff out of this one. . . (ooooooooooo I bet that stung huh?)

Do you need some studded tires in CHT today?

Dave,

Thanks for the resting reply. I figured you never rest.

You broke your collar bone on purpose just so you could recover huh

I am dying to see these new light sytems you are trying out.

Peace

 

[edemtbs]

Dave,

Thanks for the resting reply. I figured you never rest.

Dave is a freak and I mean that in the kindest, most complimentary way (so is his compatriot in mtb arms, Lynda W) :thumbsup:

I rest, non-scientifically, before I get too tired and when I need a break. I need mental breaks especially, because of the career stress on top of the training regime I try to maintain. After a while it gets overwhelming and a break is nice. If I had a family on top of everything else it would get truly difficult to maintain without "rest".

Different people have different stress levels, motivators, physical capabilities and require different rest intervals and types of rest (cross training is "rest" for example). Make sure you know your abilities when you follow suggested guidelines. All interesting and worthwhile info posted on this thread but any plan should get tailored to your lifestyle as well as racing goals.

To me the most important note from Dave:

3. The best way to prepare for an event is to train similar to the event's demands close to the event.

And I'll add, have fun doing it!

Ed E

 

[teamdicky]

TD is one of the funniest cats I know. He knows how to turn any informational, informative (yes I know those both mean the same thing) thread into a joke.

Alright, you want real info?

Race. Race XC in a really hard class and get your ass handed to you. Nothing spikes the heart rate like a stupid XC race. Those anaerobic monsters will put a hurting on your body, soul, and pride. I never run my body as hard as I do when I am racing short stuff.
Yeah, I don't do it often (or much at all), but I think it's sound advice. I don't do much of anything as far as "structured training" goes so maybe you should listen to the people who have more electronics on their bike than the space shuttle.

Doesn't matter how much you train. I still plan on poking you with a stick whenever I can.

 

[extrmtao]

Alright, you want real info?

Race. Race XC in a really hard class and get your ass handed to you. Nothing spikes the heart rate like a stupid XC race. Those anaerobic monsters will put a hurting on your body, soul, and pride. I never run my body as hard as I do when I am racing short stuff.
Yeah, I don't do it often (or much at all), but I think it's sound advice. I don't do much of anything as far as "structured training" goes so maybe you should listen to the people who have more electronics on their bike than the space shuttle.

Doesn't matter how much you train. I still plan on poking you with a stick whenever I can.

Yes, XC will get me in shape but I hate it so much. I will still do a few this year for the pain of it all.

I am mostly just looking to ride/"train" in a reasonable manner this year. I am just looking to maximize my fun in the events I do. Well that and hopefully I will be in shape enough to puke after the race this year instead of during. That's what this is about anyway (fun that is not puking).

I was just trying to understand what balance I need to reach my "goals" this year. I think I am starting to hone in on that but only time will tell.

"Doesn't matter how much you train. I still plan on poking you with a stick whenever I can."

You gotta be carefull when you poke a rotten tomato, you'll get some mooooosh on that stick of yours.

 

[extrmtao]

You gotta be carefull when you poke a rotten tomato, you'll get some mooooosh on that stick of yours.

Kind of like this . . .

 

[JRA925]

Yeah, Just peg it for 8-10hrs. That's the best way to train for Leadville. You'll learn what the body can and can't do. Me personally, just sit on the couch till the day of the race.

Seriously, The first year I did Leadville I did not change my training from my regular racing routine. Finished right at the 10hr mark. My goal was for 9hrs. It's really more of an epic mtb ride than it is a race. So much can happen, you'll find that the race will be within yourself just to finish the thing.