Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 82 Posts

·
featherweight clydesdale
Joined
·
1,378 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Shout if you just got your club insurance renewal in the mail.

Last year they basically said your club can't run its own version of IMBA trail solutions under the club policy. Well duh, if you're out there collecting money for a service, that's a different standard.

However, now there are exclusions for (and I quote):

"1) Building, designing, or maintaining trails for bicycling, hiking, or any other use
2) Operation of power machines in the conduct of club activities. This includes: motorcycles, ATV's, powersaws, chippers, Dingo's and any other power unit
3) All features built on trails owned, leased, designed by or maintained by the club

Except for the volunteer activities to maintain trails not owned or leased to the club and the club is covered by the landowners insurance coverage as volunteers. (Such as - Adopt a Trail programs or trail cleanup programs sponsored by the trail landowner or lesse)" end quote

So does this put all IMBA clubs out of building trails, for free, on public land?

Are clubs no longer allowed to organize a workday, but now depend on the land owner to organize the workday?

I suppose the tool stash is limited to clippers and trashbags?

Has anyone looked for other insurance?
 

·
IMBA Guy
Joined
·
173 Posts
Wow, that's a restrictive policy.

IMBA's been working hard to source insurance products that will cover any and all club activities, there will even be add-ons available for freeride and downhill trail construction/facilities.

We're waiting on a final OK from the insurance underwriter before we make any announcement. I'll post updates here, on IMBA's web site, and via email to all of our affiliate clubs. Stay tuned...
 

·
Recovering
Joined
·
1,482 Posts
Last year they added a separate premium for trailbuilding clubs who need primary coverage. I haven't seen the paperwork yet- are they now expanding the separate premium to all trailbuilding clubs, or are they now not covering any trailbuilding activities at all at any cost?
 

·
featherweight clydesdale
Joined
·
1,378 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
jbogner said:
Last year they added a separate premium for trailbuilding clubs who need primary coverage. I haven't seen the paperwork yet- are they now expanding the separate premium to all trailbuilding clubs, or are they now not covering any trailbuilding activities at all at any cost?
I don't see an "add on" in my paperwork for a separate trail "building" premium, petro powered machine premium, using a clino premium, etc.

It's like they're trying to make the customer fit their box as opposed to the other way around.
 

·
IMBA Guy
Joined
·
173 Posts
Fattirewilly said:
It's like they're trying to make the customer fit their box as opposed to the other way around.
That pretty much sums it up.

All IMBA affiliated clubs were sent an email today informing them of the changes coming from McKay and providing notice that IMBA is working on new insurance options that will actually meet their needs.

A large part of the email is a request for action. We need Loss Runs (the insurance industry lingo for an official summary of insurance claims made against an organization) from as many clubs as we can get them from in order to get a final commitment from insurance underwriters. If you are reading this post, and you are a club leader or know a club leader, please do what you can to make sure this is done.

Instructions for acquiring the Loss Runs and submitting them to IMBA are included in the email. I'm not going to post the email here because it contains many phone numbers and email addresses, but I will gladly supply a copy of the email upon request.

Ryan AT IMBA Dot com

I will continue to post updates here as they become available.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
796 Posts
Timline seems really tight!

Thanks DancingBear, we recieved the email earlier today.

The McKay policies are due for renewal on Oct 15th. In order for clubs to not have a lapse in coverage this leaves ~4weeks for:
1) Everyone to get their Loss Runs back from Lexington and sent to IMBA.
2) IMBA to tally all the info and forward that onto whomever they are working with.
3) Whomever IMBA is working with to review the info and have a final commitment.
4) IMBA affiliated clubs to apply for the new policy.
5) Insurance company to approve applications and issue insurance binders.

It seams unlikely that all of this will happen within the next 4 weeks. McKay/Lexington will be overwhelmed with the Loss Run requests, then the new insurance company will be overwhelmed with new applications.

Do you have any info on the turnaround time for the final commitment and policy application process?
 

·
IMBA Guy
Joined
·
173 Posts
We can't commit to a timeline yet, but we're doing our best to have things ready for October.

Thanks to all of the club leaders that have taken action on such short notice! This wouldn't work without you.

I'll post any new info here.
 

·
Probably drunk right now
Joined
·
6,758 Posts
Question...

LWright said:
Trail building aside, we left the McKay agency and get the same basic insurance from the League of American Bicyclists for a lot less.
I don't understand. So you have a policy with LAB that includes trail building activities or are you saying that you have a policy that doesn't include trail building activities?

If it's the latter, then the policy won't work for a majority of IMBA organizations.
 

·
Ride Responsibly
Joined
·
1,937 Posts
Sorry for any confusion. No trail building covered by the LAB insurance, at least not the standard policy. Could not hurt to ask the company about such coverage though if you are serious about shopping around. The club and event insurance are both less expensive than McKay.
If LOBO were to build a trail it would have to be under an agencies (State Parks) umbrella.
How many clubs would really need the trail builders coverage?
Good question for IMBA to research. They could also suggest other options, such as partnering with an agency.
Just random thoughts,
Lyle
 

·
IMBA Guy
Joined
·
173 Posts
Update:

We have 2 new contacts to send Loss Run requests to:

[email protected]
[email protected]

If you have received an email from Chartis/Lexington stating that the request needs to be sent to AI Risk Management, please send the request to the above addresses.

I'm on my way to SSWC09 in Durango, but I'll be checking in regularly.

Thanks again for everyone's help and support in getting this thing done.

Cheers,

Ryan
 

·
Ride Responsibly
Joined
·
1,937 Posts
I checked, NO trails building coverage with League of American Bicyclist.
"Hello Lyle,

Our program currently does not offer coverage for trail building, maintenance, or clean up. These activities open up a lot more exposure than our program is geared to cover at this time.

My best advise to you would be to find a local insurance agent that sells commercial insurance to see if they may have a market for such exposures.

Sorry I couldnt be of more help. Thank you for your business!

Account Representative, Policy Services
American Specialty Insurance & Risk Services, Inc.
260-673-1252 Direct
260-672-8835 Fax

Proud Sponsor of America's Pastimes and Future Times ®"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
If your club does any type of organized trail work, (maintenance, construction, design, etc) your club insurance needs to expressly cover the activity. State volunteer agreements typically have limits as to what they will cover (such as worker's comp) and the club insurance is necessary to cover liability risks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
LAB and local "landscaping" comercial coverage

This is a good discussion and it seems now may be a good time for all of us out there to look into insurance options. IMBA being an option in the future, a fear of insurance laps is a very valid concern. Perhaps it would be a good idea for clubs that need insurance, guaranteed, would be benefited by signing up for the LAB policy, then speaking with a local insurance company to look into Commercial Liability insurance, typically underwritten as a landscaping policy. Trust the opinion of whoever your insurance agent is.

It seems like in the long term this option may overall be a cheaper one as well. The IMBA policy will be a national policy where as most clubs will only be building locally which will greatly reduce the exposure and cost for a "CGL" policy. My costs are fairly high for a national coverage of CGL, and I have been told that staying localized would "greatly reduce those costs."

This brings up another point, that local clubs could also look into using a professional builder as the "crew leader" for their projects, thus shifting the risk onto the shoulders of a professional. The bonus to a for profit operation, as opposed to non-profits, is they have the revenue to cover such expenses as proper insurance and understand proper safety protocol during workdays.

Just my $.02
 

·
Tre1nt
Joined
·
419 Posts
I'll ask Dancing Bear to get back on this thread (he's on the road today), but for now I can clear up a few things:

1) The insurance package IMBA is working on for clubs will not be a "national policy." It will be an insurance product designed for local mountain bike clubs and their trailbuilding events.

2) IMBA will have its guidance out on the new insurance options soon -- likely by midweek.

3) Our research tells us that characterizing trailbuilding as landscaping can lead to problems -- they are not the same thing.

4) Regarding redriderbb's closing statements, IMBA believes that local clubs can and will have access to "proper insurance" and that volunteer clubs can and do "understand proper safety protocol."

Look for Dancing Bear's followup tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Semantics

Mark,

I hope Ryan had fun in Durango, I know all of my friends did. In reference to a few things.

(3) I will leave the proper underwriting of policies in the hands of insurance companies. If you have a written dialog between a customer and an insurance agent that is truthful and up to date, the policy advised by that agent will be the best policy they can provide. If there are errors, the insurance agency carries the responsibility for those mistakes and carries insurance to cover themselves, professional liability policy. I will continue to listen to the advice of the insurance agency I have been working with for years now.

(4) This is an argument I would rather not delve too deeply into, but I will state that it is rare I work with volunteer groups who are utilizing proper OSHA protocol, where as when working with professionals there is typically a stronger drive to follow proper protocol, as they have something very substantial at risk, ie. their business. This argument is purely one of semantics, however. I am simply trying to illustrate that IMBA insurance is not the sole option for clubs out there.

I do not mean any disrespect to the organization, I am simply trying to illustrate the multiple options. Again, I think this is a very important topic for many people, including some so called "pro builders" out there, to review and understand. One bad lawsuit that was not properly insured would be detrimental to many of the great movements out there.

I hope my imput is not seen as a gripe. If so I apologize.
 

·
Tre1nt
Joined
·
419 Posts
No problem -- I appreciate the feedback.

Agree that good coverage is paramount, and also that the policy IMBA is helping pull together will not be the only option clubs have ... we hope that it will be a readily accessible and good one though.

-- Mark
 

·
Probably drunk right now
Joined
·
6,758 Posts
Clarity...

redriderbb said:
Mark,

I hope Ryan had fun in Durango, I know all of my friends did. In reference to a few things.

(3) I will leave the proper underwriting of policies in the hands of insurance companies. If you have a written dialog between a customer and an insurance agent that is truthful and up to date, the policy advised by that agent will be the best policy they can provide. If there are errors, the insurance agency carries the responsibility for those mistakes and carries insurance to cover themselves, professional liability policy. I will continue to listen to the advice of the insurance agency I have been working with for years now.

(4) This is an argument I would rather not delve too deeply into, but I will state that it is rare I work with volunteer groups who are utilizing proper OSHA protocol, where as when working with professionals there is typically a stronger drive to follow proper protocol, as they have something very substantial at risk, ie. their business. This argument is purely one of semantics, however. I am simply trying to illustrate that IMBA insurance is not the sole option for clubs out there.

I do not mean any disrespect to the organization, I am simply trying to illustrate the multiple options. Again, I think this is a very important topic for many people, including some so called "pro builders" out there, to review and understand. One bad lawsuit that was not properly insured would be detrimental to many of the great movements out there.

I hope my imput is not seen as a gripe. If so I apologize.
Thank you for your input and perspective. Not seen as a gripe on my end. Valuable suggestions.

Thanks,
 
1 - 20 of 82 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top