[tscheezy]

I see a lot of bikes with bashguards but no chainguide which strikes me as a bit odd.

A few years ago I started playing with basic chainguides. I started with a Heim, and then swapped the Heim roller with rollers from e13 and MRP, then I got an e13 DRS for the 6-Pack, then an MRL LRP, and have mixed and matched parts between them liberally. They confer a lot of benefits imo. The weight for one of the small, single-arm styles with a stepped roller is totally negligible unless you are a card-carrying gram counter. They are extremely easy to install as most just sandwitch between the drive-side bb cup and the bb shell. They virtually eliminate both dropped chains AND chainsuck in my experience.

Some setups don't lend themselves well to the addition of a chainguide, it's true. There may not be room for a 2+mm thick arm (LRP, e13) between the bb cup and the shell without causing interference somewhere. The Heim arm is extremely thin however (1mm), and when paired with an LRP roller, you have a simply foolproof, smooth, quiet, and durable setup.

Anyway, just wondering if people were not aware of them, tried them and didn't like them, did not care for the bother of setup, were afraid of the complication or weight, or just never thought about it...?

 

[yogreg]

I see a lot of bikes with bashguards but no chainguide which strikes me as a bit odd.

A few years ago I started playing with basic chainguides. I started with a Heim, and then swapped the Heim roller with rollers from e13 and MRP, then I got an e13 DRS for the 6-Pack, then an MRL LRP, and have mixed and matched parts between them liberally. They confer a lot of benefits imo. The weight for one of the small, single-arm styles with a stepped roller is totally negligible unless you are a card-carrying gram counter. They are extremely easy to install as most just sandwitch between the drive-side bb cup and the bb shell. They virtually eliminate both dropped chains AND chainsuck in my experience.

Some setups don't lend themselves well to the addition of a chainguide, it's true. There may not be room for a 2+mm thick arm (LRP, e13) between the bb cup and the shell without causing interference somewhere. The Heim arm is extremely thin however (1mm), and when paired with an LRP roller, you have a simply foolproof, smooth, quiet, and durable setup.

Anyway, just wondering if people were not aware of them, tried them and didn't like them, did not care for the bother of setup, were afraid of the complication or weight, or just never thought about it...?

Not a Turner owner but come here for good info. Hence the response to this thread.
Do you have any experience using a guide with an e-13 bash? I am interested in a set-up just not sure which to choose.
I run a supercharger on with a 36 tooth ring.

Greg

 

[MightySchmoePong]

Really?

I see a lot of bikes with bashguards but no chainguide which strikes me as a bit odd.

I use a bash guard because where I ride the big ring gets destroyed very quickly on rocks, and there aren't a lot of opportunities to use the big ring.

Since I was able to shorten the chain I almost never drop my chain. Since I don't drop my chain a chain guide doesn't seem necessary.

Why does a bash-guard imply a chain guide? It seems to me that they serve two different functions.

Dave

 

[RaD]

I have an e13 DRS on order but I am waiting since mid october..backorder.

I discovered that it will be better to ride with a chainguard as I had some chain drops during my riding in summer/fall. Also I expect less chainslap and a quieter ride.
If my e13 doesn´t show up soon I will probably go with a Blackspire Stinger and combinate it with my Truvativ lexan bashguard.
I stayed away from a chain retention system for my SixPack since bad memorys I have from DH racing and those permanently moving,bended and other way trashed chainguards of the past. And I hated the noise and obvious drag they made.Oh,and it was real fun to get a droped chain out of the self missaligning(sp?) chainguards of the past midrace.
I want to avoid all these troubles but there was a big technological evolution in the past few years so I am still waiting
Why i coose the e13?
1st there are good reviews here at MTBR.com, 2nd a thick lexan(or whatever)bashguard and 3rd it stays realy low in profile, no far down hanging parts and 4th it looks relative simple and clean to me.

Later
RaD

 

[Clyde S Dale]

I see a lot of bikes with bashguards but no chainguide which strikes me as a bit odd.

Anyway, just wondering if people were not aware of them, tried them and didn't like them, did not care for the bother of setup, were afraid of the complication or weight, or just never thought about it...?

My view is similar to MightySchmoePong's view: I installed a bash guard because I was knocking teeth off my big ring, but I dropped the chain infrequently. When I started dropping the chain more often I shortened the chain and installed an AJ's. Problem solved. As far as chain suck goes, I think I've experienced it once. Lucky I guess.

EDIT: There's no moving parts on the AJs and it weighs about 50gms. I also substituted a better picture.

 

[Jayem]

If I had a problem with chains comming off, I would use it.

I set up my derailer properly and use the proper chain length, and I only ride through nasty stuff in the middle ring, because there's a higher chance of it falling off if it's on the big ring of course. I just don't have a problem with the chain comming off through, through drops, jumps, whatever.

I don't recall having much problem with the chain on any of the low pivot bikes I've had, maybe it was worse on the higher pivot ones, but that's kind of hard for me to quantify because it's been a while since I've owned them. A higher pivot bike would necessitate a longer chain, and allow more slack in certain gear combos and situations. Maybe that's a reason that my lower-pivot bikes with the proper chain length don't drop chains much?

I do dig the big ring into logs every once and a while, but I'm not too concerned about it. It's got some teeth that are rounded down/missing, but it still works.

 

[Roostalee]

Clyde brings up a point that I've been pondering. Is there a lightweight device (such as AJ's) that works well in XC applications? I ride a Burner and don't really want/need the heavy duty devices that Pack (and even some Spot) riders use. I've had some chainsuck issues with my bike that may be due to poor shifting, yes, but if there is a chain-retention device to eliminate (or reduce) it, I'm all over it.

If AJ's is the ticket, would that be OK to use with a Deus crankset/BB?

 

[Paul5s]

I used a DRS on my RFX and for a short while on my 5 Spot. The problems I came across were bearings lasted a very short time in the wet conditions I ride in, the roller chewed up pretty quick, and the drag was noticable too. Now if there was an answer for the bearings problem I might consider going back to one...

 

[Enel]

Tscheezy:

To answer your question...I basically know little to nothing about them. Never held one in my hands, or examined one on a bike. Sort of thought they were for huckers/Dhers with only one front chainring. Can you shift front chainrings with them??

They kind of interest me since I like to tinker, but they would solve what is essentially a non-existent problem. I rarely lose a chain, and chain suck is not as common in dry AZ as other places. If I struggled with chainsuck, I would be all over it, however....I HATE CHAINSUCK.

General ignorance and lack of need are my answers. I also don't run a bashring...isn't that what the big ring is for? Again, never saw the need for the expense.

 

[Alpenglow]

Agree. I have stolen some of your ideas too.

The best trail chain guide for me is the Heim three guide with the MRP roller. I used an e13 DRS on my bullit and it functioned fine, but it was not durable. I have already broke 2 of the lexan bash rings and one guide. I currently am running the Heim on my 5 Spot (2.5 years problem free), and I love it. The MRP rollers and bearings seem to be superior to the E13. When my Heim rollers went bad I ordered an E13 roller, but the bearings didn't last at all. I then oredered an MRP LRP roller from Speedgoat and have had no problems. Heim should outsource their rollers and bearings to MRP like Soulcraft does with their Convert single speed tensioner.
I am currently using a cracked E13 bash guard, but I will soon replace it with a Steel Raceface guard which I also find to be the most trouble free bash guard.

 

[Alpenglow]

Try an MRP LRP Roller

http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=41971

I used a DRS on my RFX and for a short while on my 5 Spot. The problems I came across were bearings lasted a very short time in the wet conditions I ride in, the roller chewed up pretty quick, and the drag was noticable too. Now if there was an answer for the bearings problem I might consider going back to one...

 

[.Danno.]

Vital for some bikes

On my old high single pivot Bullit the chain was constantly coming off. The Turners aren't nearly as bad because of the limited chaingrowth. The higher tension SRAM stuff helps too.

I ran my new Pack about a week sans CG because my old MRP LRP wouldn't fit with the ISCG mounts. I bought a new ISCG LRP because they're a bit lighter than the e13, although I find the e13's work best. The thing that bugged me is that the ISCG mount is too far outboard. With a 2.5 mm spacer under the BB on that side I still ended up having to do a lot of grinding on the small ring bolt heads. To have the chainline the way I wanted it I would rather have no spacers on that side. I though the ISCG would let me do that - nope.

 

[Bikezilla]

Great thread Ts.

I run the E-13 DRS. I took it off for a while while I diddled with this and that, then put it back on for our little western trip. I was quickly reminded of the extra quietness (reduced chainslap) and reduction in chain dropping on the rough and tumble stuff. It's smooth and quiet and easy to install (as you said). I've been a fan of the E-13 bash guards ever since I tried it. I dig the way Lexan slides off of rocks rather than instantly "cold-welding" to them. I'm beginning to see what you meant about the DRS bearing needing regular service. I think it's probably because it's so small and rotates so much. Maybe they could hollow-out the backside of the step roller and put in a larger, roller-blade type bearing that can hold more grease?

Installing it was easy especially with $himano outboard BBs b/c the cups recommned a standard ~3mm spacer and the DRS is just shy of that (2mm as you said) I added a ~1mm spacer to make up the difference but I don't think it is necessary.

I think if a person was focused on XC it's not worth it but for mixed to hard-core trail riding and above, a chainguid is a real bonus and far outweighs the minimal friction and weight.

 

[tscheezy]

The e13 DRS's system is excellent except for the pathetic bearings they call for. They are TINY and poorly sealed. The Heim roller is quite hard and noisy, and feeds the chain into the bashring during backpedaling which is not optimal. The MRP roller is the best by far imo. That roller mounted on a diminutive Heim arm is the hot setup as far as I'm concerned.

Some general info for Enels: there are chain-retention systems for single chainrings, two chainrings, and even all three chainrings. The Heim allows you to run 3 rings. The e13 DRS and MRP Long Range Patroller (LRP) allow the use of two rings (middle and granny).

The chainguide keeps chain bounce from throwing a wave of loose chain forward which can flip the chain off the rings. Since the chain generally wants to fall towards the inside (towards the granny), the roller tends to be stepped or tapered in a way that prevents this lateral movement. I find they reduce chainsuck because they provide a very predictable and even release point for the chain from the rings.

I never dropped my chain much here at home, but a few years ago I noticed that just about every pedaling section on Porcupine Rim or Flat Pass would start with me feeding the chain back onto my middle ring since it fell to the granny. After getting a Heim for a Utah trip, I just never bothered taking the guide off once back home since it does not detract from drivetrain performance and only provides benefits, albeit less at home than on the road in the desert.

 

[tscheezy]

Here's my preferred arrangement: A Heim 3 arm that I cut down shorter because I did not need the length to reach a 3rd ring and the added tire clearance lets me tuck it up under the chainstay out of harm's way, combined with the quiet and durable LRP roller. I color half the roller's lip black with a sharpie so that it "blinks" at me when it rolls so I can tell at a glance on a ride if it gets stuck for some reason (frozen, stuck with grass, etc). This was an issue with the DRS, but never with the LRP.

 

[can't get right]

Ts you are so smart and inventive. Can I be you when you are dead?

After our time together in Moab I have chosen to purchase an LRP on your suggestion.
I will let you know how I like it if it ever arrives.

 

[Paul5s]

Seems like I'll have to take another look at a chainguide with an MRP roller, thanks for the info guys

Just out of curiosity what rings are the dual setup users running? Oh and what range cassette are you combining them with?

 

[tscheezy]

CGR, If I die, I'll let you know.

I just run the standard gearing: 22/32 in front, and 12-34 in back. You could get a larger middle ring (or 11t cog) if you spin out of the 32/12 combo, but I get scared when I go that fast.

 

[Enel]

What are the three bolt holes near the pack's BB for?

I've read for ISCG...International Standard Chain Guide? Yet you don't need to use them? Confused.

 

[cactuscorn]

this is quite the interesting topic so thanx cheese. i too am one with poor experience with old guides but some good ones too. the old kore lived on my burner almost from the start and was a bit troublesome at times. for dh i picked up a closeout bullit bros t-2 which worked well when i bolstered it with a alloy plate to the seat tube so it wouldnt rotate on a hit as much but created tons of drag. this i lived with cuz i had to run somethin and back then i ran what i could afford.

now times have changed. i have a proper dh/fr rig and the need for a guide may be back. i figured a guard would suffice for now till i got a bit nuttyer with my agression level. the e - 13 drs was what i was thinkin of till you piped in so im sure glad i read this.

anyway, im not sure what ill do just yet. guess ill hang out and let more of yous guys be my r&d team. ill let ya know what i end up doin if anything at all.