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Don't be a sheep
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So I have owned a Blur LTc for approx. 4 months, while I liked most aspects of the frame I was underwhelmed with the performance of the suspension. Having come from Horst Link bikes and this being my first VPP bike I thought it was a function of the suspension design. The bike performed well on bigger rolling terrain but when pushed hard in chunky stuff it felt almost like a hardtail compared to my other bikes no matter how much I messed with the shock settings and I know my way around shocks. I'd resigned myself to being a bit disappointed in the bike until I rode someone elses Blur LTc with a Rock Shox Monarch on it, wow, what a difference. I did a search on MTBR to see if anyone else had this experience and I came across this thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=546088

What he is describing was exactly what I was feeling. Soooooooooo off to PUSH my shock went. I am definitely not a PUSH fanboy, in fact it pissed me off really that I had to spend money to have a new shock "fixed", especially since this is a long line of crap Fox products I've had to deal with.

Later I found this post by Dave Turner;

We have tried numerous versions of the 2010 'Boost Valve' shock, and we will NOT be offering it. It is not performing any better than the stock 'belleville' type 2009, not as plush in the rocks and chop. It does work OK in the rolling stuff that more resembles moto trails and less rock, but get the 2010 in the rocks and it is harsh and jacks the bike around like a XC race machine. To quote VeloBum, "this is the shock I would want if I were building a race bike". There are no plans to build a full on XC race bike at this time....

DT

Today I got the shock back and installed it, went for a quick ride. A completely different bike, so stoked on it now. I guess the main reason I am posting this is to give other Boost Valve shock owners a heads up and maybe to vent on Fox......again.
 

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Rivet said:
So I have owned a Blur LTc for approx. 4 months, while I liked most aspects of the frame I was underwhelmed with the performance of the suspension. Having come from Horst Link bikes and this being my first VPP bike I thought it was a function of the suspension design. The bike performed well on bigger rolling terrain but when pushed hard in chunky stuff it felt almost like a hardtail compared to my other bikes no matter how much I messed with the shock settings and I know my way around shocks. I'd resigned myself to being a bit disappointed in the bike until I rode someone elses Blur LTc with a Rock Shox Monarch on it, wow, what a difference. I did a search on MTBR to see if anyone else had this experience and I came across this thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=546088

What he is describing was exactly what I was feeling. Soooooooooo off to PUSH my shock went. I am definitely not a PUSH fanboy, in fact it pissed me off really that I had to spend money to have a new shock "fixed", especially since this is a long line of crap Fox products I've had to deal with.

Later I found this post by Dave Turner;

We have tried numerous versions of the 2010 'Boost Valve' shock, and we will NOT be offering it. It is not performing any better than the stock 'belleville' type 2009, not as plush in the rocks and chop. It does work OK in the rolling stuff that more resembles moto trails and less rock, but get the 2010 in the rocks and it is harsh and jacks the bike around like a XC race machine. To quote VeloBum, "this is the shock I would want if I were building a race bike". There are no plans to build a full on XC race bike at this time....

DT

Today I got the shock back and installed it, went for a quick ride. A completely different bike, so stoked on it now. I guess the main reason I am posting this is to give other Boost Valve shock owners a heads up and maybe to vent on Fox......again.
That is good to hear :) I just got my Rp23 back from PUSH as well, and I'm pretty sure they remove the boost valve in the new Fox shocks. I haven't had a chance for a real trail ride yet, but I'm stoke to hear your feedback. Hopefully my BLT will ride more like a coil bike ;)
 

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Interesting stuff.

I've got a BLTc with the RP23 that I just built up and is sitting in the basement waiting for the snow to melt and the trails to be rideable. I'm coming from a Superlight so there will be a transition to figure out what the new 'normal' feels like on VPP instead of SP.

Rivet - just for reference, how much do you weigh?
 

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Don't be a sheep
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wheeldog said:
Interesting stuff.

I've got a BLTc with the RP23 that I just built up and is sitting in the basement waiting for the snow to melt and the trails to be rideable. I'm coming from a Superlight so there will be a transition to figure out what the new 'normal' feels like on VPP instead of SP.

Rivet - just for reference, how much do you weigh?
160lbs, probably 170 all geared up.
 

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Turner frames still don't came with Boost Valve on 2011 frames!!

I have a BLT with 2009 RP23 without Boost Valve, test the Tallboy in 2010 summer vacations, love the bike, but the shock ... don't know if was the 100mm only or Boost Valve.
 

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supercusty said:
If you wanted a coil why didn't you just get a coil
My Nomad already has a coil, and I wanted to keep my BLT somewhat light weight for enduro rides.

Although, if I had seen GtiClay's RC4 for $300 before I sent my RP23 to PUSH, I would've had a RC4 on my bike, and bought a Ti spring for it :(
 

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I have a RP23 BV on my Nomad and I went from the Monarch. Interestingly, I found a huge difference. The Monarch was very linear feeling and the RP felt more like a coil shock than any other air shock I've ridden. The bike feels way more lively over the nasty stuff. The rear end is much more active with the RP23. Just my 2 cents.
 

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philshep said:
I have a RP23 BV on my Nomad and I went from the Monarch. Interestingly, I found a huge difference. The Monarch was very linear feeling and the RP felt more like a coil shock than any other air shock I've ridden. The bike feels way more lively over the nasty stuff. The rear end is much more active with the RP23. Just my 2 cents.
I had a 2009 Intense Tracer Vpp... It came with a Fox RP-23- No BV... Hated that rear shock with a passion... Made the bike feel super slow, Blew threw the travel and blew the O ring off the shaft all the time... My 2010 S/C BlurLT2-A and BlurLT2-carbon with Fox RP-23 BV... Like night and day... I LOVE the way this rear shock rides !!! :D :D :D I find, when I hit the really rough stuff... The rear end of the bike feels Nice and in control... I agree with philshep 100% - The bike feels way more lively over the nasty stuff. The rear end is much more active with the RP23. Just my 2 :thumbsup: P.S I find with a Nice firm rear shock... With the rebound set right... It just floats over the rough rock gardens... You can hit it hard and fast without that - Ya gonna stop in your tracks any minute... It makes you ride faster and charge harder...
 

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What's Boost Valve? I just looked...and I have it.

I just got a Tallboy, coming from a Blur classic.

The Blur came with a 5th Element, and has had a Swinger the last few years. Fantastic shocks. Soooooo smooth and plush. 115 mm of travel.

The Tallboy has only 100 mm- 15 mm less travel, but it's a 29er so I figured it'd ride about the same. It's not quite as plush though. I also have to run about 155 psi, up from only 110 psi in my longer-travel Blur. Maybe I'm having the same issue as you. It's not awful...but it feels like there is too much compression damping or something, and it's not adjustable other than using the pro-pedal, which I never use because that only INCREASES compression damping; I want less.

So...same issue? What exactly did PUSH do? How much?

How'd we wind up with Boost Valve if Dave Turner said they wouldn't be offering it?
 

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@dam said:
What's Boost Valve, and how do you know if you have one?

I just got a Tallboy, coming from a Blur classic.

The Blur came with a 5th Element, and has had a Swinger the last few years. Fantastic shocks. Soooooo smooth and plush. 115 mm of travel.

The Tallboy has only 100 mm less travel, but it's a 29er so I figured it'd ride about the same. It's not quite as plush though. I also have to run about 155 psi, up from only 110 psi in my longer-travel Blur. Maybe I'm having the same issue as you. It's not awful...but it feels like there is too much compression damping or something, and it's not adjustable other than using the pro-pedal, which I never use.

So...same issue? What exactly did PUSH do? How much? How do I know if it has boost valve?
I am Very glad S/C went with the Fox RP-23 boost valve... For me... Love the way it rides...
 

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JohnnyG 1970 said:
You don't say?

So what did you mean "felt way more lively"? That it was soaking up more bumps, or transmitting more bumps?

From the description of boost valve, it seems like it is a little extra compression damping early in the stroke, and a LOT more at the end. I think it'd be much better if it provided LESS compression damping early (pro-pedal can already do that, but you can turn it off), and then add a lot more for the last 1/3 of the stroke. Otherwise, you get what amounts to a lot more compression damping all the time and slightly better bottom-out performance at the expense of small-bump compliance. That's not better- just different.
 

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philshep said:
I have a RP23 BV on my Nomad and I went from the Monarch. Interestingly, I found a huge difference. The Monarch was very linear feeling and the RP felt more like a coil shock than any other air shock I've ridden. The bike feels way more lively over the nasty stuff. The rear end is much more active with the RP23. Just my 2 cents.
Was that a Monarch 3.3 or RT3? The new RT3 is a completely different (and better) shock.
 

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Don't be a sheep
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
@dam said:
It's not quite as plush though. I also have to run about 155 psi, up from only 110 psi in my longer-travel Blur. Maybe I'm having the same issue as you. It's not awful...but it feels like there is too much compression damping or something, and it's not adjustable other than using the pro-pedal, which I never use.

So...same issue? What exactly did PUSH do? How much?

How'd we wind up with Boost Valve if Dave Turner said they wouldn't be offering it?
Yep. What it felt like to me was it was over-damped in compression particularly mid-stroke (the meat of the travel). The odd part was on bigger rolling g-outs it would blow through the travel too easily, the exact opposite of what you'd want in a shock.
From what I understand PUSH removes the boost valve circuit and turns it into a standard RP23 with their wave washer damper piston.

Dave Turner makes Turner bikes not Santa Cruz.
 

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I think we have a translation difference between those coming from lesser travel XC bikes to longer, and those coming from longer travel trail (or DH) bikes to shorter AM ones (me).
"Lively" I'm getting the feeling that the rear end is bouncier and absorb less bumps. When I use "lively" I mean poppy. For this feeling, it's less compression and rebound so I can get the shock deep into its stroke (less compression damping) and use the spring to get the bike in the air easier (less rebound damping). If I was to use words to describe what I think the XCers are referring to as "lively", I'd say there is too much compression damping (overdamped) and the a$$-end of the bike is too bouncy (the idea of lively) and not tracking the ground/rocks. Yeah?
 

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Whoops- I was thinking Scott Turner...a guy who works (worked?) at Santa Cruz.

Santa Cruz: what sort of factory spec are you providing on these Boost Valve shocks? Looks like people either love 'em or hate 'em. It'd be nice if we could send them in for adjustment without spending $160 to rebuild and remove features from brand new shocks, just to make the bike ride as well as the bikes sold without this feature.

Sounds like Fox kinda screwed up on this. I like the idea of position-sensitive damping, but not this execution. It should work like the SensaTrak shock on my Jeep; it's much plusher than a standard shock in the part of travel right around sag, and ramps up at the end of stroke. Speed-sensitive damping takes care of jumps/top-outs. With this fox, there's more compression damping at the start, and a LOT more at the finish. With pro-pedal there's no need for more damping at the start- in fact, it's a good excuse to have LESS when propedal is off, since you can just flick it on to get it back.

Besides- the fox is a relatively low-volume air shock, so it already increases forces near bottom-out by its very nature- the force is just provided by spring, rather than damping.
 

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I just went out and measured and was disappointed to find my Tallboy only has a 1.5" stroke shock, compared to 2" for my Blur. So, it has 87% of the travel and 116% the leverage ratio. Maybe that's all I'm feeling.

I only have a couple rides on the Tallboy, but I set it up with the same 1/2 sag I had on my Blur. Now, to get the right sag, I just had to bump it from 155 to 180 psi in the shock! Should ride rougher now.


Edit- I was just looking on the Fox site. They list only 3 benefits for BoostValve, and the 3rd is "Vast tuning range provides perfect solution for any suspension design". WTF!? It isn't adjustable AT ALL.

(The other two listed benefits are "unrivaled square-edge bump compliance", which is debatable, and that it's offered only by Fox...how is that a benefit?)
 

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Different strokes for different folks and the TB has sooo many uses. I think most prefer to use it as a semi trail bike with some xc riding. I use it strictly for XC racing and I personally find the RP23 too soft. I'm running Rp23 with the compression dampening near max and with PP3. If anything I'd like to get my RP23 push'd for a high compression tune but then again I'm coming off a rigid hardtail so any suspension movement feels plush to me.
 
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