[twowheelmotion]

Hello internet.
Apologies if my title sucks. Didn't think too hard on that. Basically, someone that I know that knows someone was trying to get a permit to host their own bicycle race, on public land, near their town. The land manager has denied the application for the permit, and the hopes for a race is DOA. When asked, the land manager sent over the outline of the policy explaining why they would not issue a permit to race (below in italics)

Looking at #4, then at the deal-breaking #5, what's your take? I personally think they (my friends) should cut their losses and be thankful someone thought about sustainable mountain biking trails for the future to enjoy. There is nothing wrong with racing, but I appreciate the ability to "manage" trails, too. Would you petition and press the race to happen and work to overturn the policy? I love racing, it's my favorite, but what's MTBR got to say? I have omitted the names and places.


-Prohibit air-soft and paintball activities, including organized games and casual use of these types of equipment unless authorized through a Special Recreation Permit;
-Acquire legal public access to suitable parking/staging area.
-Develop suitable facilities to support use at parking/staging areas.
-Manage and maintain connected trails for mountain bicycling experiences.
-Limit available commercial Special Recreation Permits for guide and outfitting services to no more than five (5). Special Recreation Permits for competitive events would not be issued.

 

[2021Mach6]

Hello internet.
Apologies if my title sucks. Didn't think too hard on that. Basically, someone that I know that knows someone was trying to get a permit to host their own bicycle race, on public land, near their town. The land manager has denied the application for the permit, and the hopes for a race is DOA. When asked, the land manager sent over the outline of the policy explaining why they would not issue a permit to race (below in italics)

Looking at #4, then at the deal-breaking #5, what's your take? I personally think they (my friends) should cut their losses and be thankful someone thought about sustainable mountain biking trails for the future to enjoy. There is nothing wrong with racing, but I appreciate the ability to "manage" trails, too. Would you petition and press the race to happen and work to overturn the policy? I love racing, it's my favorite, but what's MTBR got to say? I have omitted the names and places.


-Prohibit air-soft and paintball activities, including organized games and casual use of these types of equipment unless authorized through a Special Recreation Permit;
-Acquire legal public access to suitable parking/staging area.
-Develop suitable facilities to support use at parking/staging areas.
-Manage and maintain connected trails for mountain bicycling experiences.
-Limit available commercial Special Recreation Permits for guide and outfitting services to no more than five (5). Special Recreation Permits for competitive events would not be issued.

Looks pretty cut and dry, but this stuff always boils down to two things ... money and politics. If you have 5,000 signatures from local residents (votes) and could make a case for how it would benefit the community (money) than you might have a case. It really depends on the land managers and local politics though. Like if you're in Bentonville, Asheville or Knoxville, places where mountain biking is part of the entire community, you might be able to get some support. But if it's like most other towns, you're gonna have a land manager with little incentive, and vocal opponents who are just as passionate about not giving up an inch, as we are about riding.

Wouldn't hurt to inquire about though. Just be prepared to make a case, which should include local support, funding, liability, cleaning up and most importantly, what's in it for the land managers and politicians? What do they have to gain from having a race, and why should they take on that additional expense and liability?

Full Disclosure: I have little experience in local bike politics. Aside from chipping in with the local trails here and there, I avoid that stuff whenever possible. Just my unqualified opinion, but can't hurt to kick the tires a little

 

[uintah]

It really depends on the land managers and local politics though. Like if you're in Bentonville, Asheville or Knoxville, places where mountain biking is part of the entire community, you might be able to get some support. But if it's like most other towns, you're gonna have a land manager with little incentive, and vocal opponents who are just as passionate about not giving up an inch, as we are about riding.

Spot on! Here in Western Colorado, we are lucky to have the land managers (BLM, Forrest Service etc.) on our side when it comes to events and trail network expansion. The area markets itself on outdoor recreation and I'm certain that has an influence.

 

[Harold]

Not uncommon for land managers to decide not to allow races. There are lots of reasons why they might make that decision.

Maybe they simply don't want to have the impact to the trails or facility that events like races are going to cause.

Events like races are going to impact the experiences of other user groups and non-racers, as well. Most races involve a closed course, and that kind of thing may not be something the land manager is willing to entertain.

I live in Asheville, NC. Dupont State Forest is a hard no for races and is difficult to get a permit for non-race events like ride fests and big clinics (to the extent that most who have obtained one once have chosen not to do so again). The land manager strongly prefers limiting events to very small groups (fewer than a dozen including guides/leaders). The place is ridiculously popular and gets crazy busy.

Bent Creek experimental forest (a portion of Pisgah NF) doesn't allow races OR professional guiding. It may be a very popular place for recreation, but recreation is a secondary use here to the research that is done by the USFS regional research station and by many universities.

Both places have clear reasons for those policies.

There are other trails in the area that are more amenable to racing. Just not these.

 

[RBoardman]

If I had my own trails (on private property for example), I’d host invite-only races so I could control who and how many people show up to keep things organized and fun. I haven’t found anywhere yet that would be good to host a mtb enduro/dh, though I have participated in multiple underground events that are always a blast, but I do help host moto team races locally and those are always a huge hit.

 

[fgiraffe]

Building a relationship with the local land manager is part of the process, and takes time. The manager needs to be confident that the organizer is responsible and has their act together.
If your race organizer friend is looking for advice, I'd advise them to put in volunteer work on the land in question until the land manager understands they're solid.

 

[twowheelmotion]

If your race organizer friend is looking for advice, I'd advise them to put in volunteer work on the land in question until the land manager understands they're solid.

That's actually what gave them the idea of wanting to host a race. The work, and the relationship with the land manager is strong, the volunteer hours are definitely there. The draw is a little extra revenue for not only the town, which would be great, but funding for their tiny trail stewardship group would also be rad. Plus, adding a race to the calendar for us to venture out to, would be just awesome.

 

[DMFT]

My advice bro is "Careful what you wish for......" and DON'T put your spots crown-jewel on the race course because it will never be the same again. And that's my $.02 for $.00

 

[RBoardman]

My advice bro is "Careful what you wish for......" and DON'T put your spots crown-jewel on the race course because it will never be the same again. And that's my $.02 for $.00

He said it’s a public trail system not some secret loamers.

 

[Harold]

He said it’s a public trail system not some secret loamers.

doesn't matter. a race is going to bring a heavy level of impact to a trail and it WILL change it. especially if the conditions are sub-par (super dusty, extra wet, etc).

 

[twowheelmotion]

My advice bro is "Careful what you wish for......" and DON'T put your spots crown-jewel on the race course because it will never be the same again. And that's my $.02 for $.00

Yeah you know, you'd actually have to get in your car and drive there and ride it to know crown jewel, or not. Or are you just comparing it to other places that held races and shortly after, single-track was converted to EVERYTHING FLOW TRAIL! LOLZ

 

[twowheelmotion]

doesn't matter. a race is going to bring a heavy level of impact to a trail and it WILL change it. especially if the conditions are sub-par (super dusty, extra wet, etc).

What if it wasn't wide open? Who's to say how many people get to race? Maybe it's an invitational race? Maybe the dirt is perfect?

 

[Harold]

What if it wasn't wide open? Who's to say how many people get to race? Maybe it's an invitational race? Maybe the dirt is perfect?

what? going to limit attendance to 2 people?

part of it is the traffic, part of it might be conditions-related, but you're also ignoring the fact that race pace also puts more impact into the trail tread than social pace even when conditions are optimal. people are going to pass each other. if your trail is particularly narrow, it's going to get widened as racers pass each other. add dozens of people going at a race pace and your trail is going to change as a result of the race.

the fact of the matter is that the land manager doesn't have to allow racing if they don't want it. if they feel like some aspect of it runs contrary to their objectives, then you're going to have to convince them that it doesn't. and the simple fact is that depending on their reasons, that may not be possible.

 

[dubthang]

I hosted my first race last August. There is a lot more to it than just getting permission. Step one should be finding a company that is willing to provide insurance for such an event. Get a quote for coverage, and then approach the town. This shows them that you are serious, and you actually know what you are doing.

 

[VegasSingleSpeed]

Who's to say how many people get to race?

The land-manager typically has that authority. Right now, he says "zero". If his mind ever changes to approve a race-permit, he will (likely) have the authority on the max number of participants. There may be other laws that restrict participation, too (including those related to traffic, parking, fire/EMS, etc).

 

[twowheelmotion]

I hosted my first race last August. There is a lot more to it than just getting permission. Step one should be finding a company that is willing to provide insurance for such an event. Get a quote for coverage, and then approach the town. This shows them that you are serious, and you actually know what you are doing.

Awesome! When you got your race going, did your insurance coverage/price depend on the number of racers? Appreciate the positive feedback

 

[dubthang]

Awesome! When you got your race going, did your insurance coverage/price depend on the number of racers? Appreciate the positive feedback

I honestly don't remember how the pricing worked. I do know that there are very few places that will provide insurance for such an event. The cost was no very high, and we had waivers for the competitors.

 

[NorCalTaz]

They have races quite often (Total Body Fitness) and HS Races at Granite Bay, they take up lots of Saturday Morning's on the trails and draw quite large crowds. Used to resent the trails not being available, but I have sent admitted/accepted to the benefit, especially to the HS racing that goes on. The trails definitely take a beating, but Granite Bay is sandy and recovers quite well. Of course, these are XC races given the terrain. Not sure what type of racing you are suggesting, but involving something like the HS XC races would not hurt on the PR side of things.

 

[Sidewalk]

In my town, one of the residents who was involved in local politics (also ran for mayor) tried to get an enduro race organized. He reached out to a local race promoter who at the time had been running a race for over 25 years (Aaron Gwin has been racing there off and one at least for the past decade). City council downvoted it, because it is a horse town and they don't want that bad element around. So, that was it.

 

[2021Mach6]

doesn't matter. a race is going to bring a heavy level of impact to a trail and it WILL change it. especially if the conditions are sub-par (super dusty, extra wet, etc).

I volunteer on my local trails, and we host several races a year (outside Philly). Trails aren't impacted after race days any more than they would be during a busy weekend. Plus we have a written agreement that x number of volunteers help repair/maintain the course shortly after the race (typically the next business day). I hear a lot of people talk how e-bikes and races cause trail damage, but I simply don't see it. If anything it's very minimal, and I'd argue that the natural elements have a far greater impact than e-bikes or races.

That said, I'm in PA and there are a lot of variables, so what I see here, might be completely different elsewhere.